Abigail Keleher : Short Biography

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Hello,

George Waters marries Abigail Kelleher 14 Oct 1845, John Kelleher and William Waters witnesses, performed by D. Mahoney. page 47 of Cloyne/Aghabullogue registers: nli.ie 05007/06. 

George Waters dies age 91 in 1898 Caum, married, son John reporting. Abbey Waters dies age 79 in 1905 in Caum, a widow. Daughter Lizzie reporting. www.irishgenealogy.ie civil reg search. Abby's will calendar is among 18 Waters wills recorded: http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014914/005014…

Wm Waters of Caum age 65 dies in 1871. http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014894/005014…

Griffiths Valuation has a William Waters in Derryroe, Aghabullogue in 1852. There are 90 Waters in Cork. http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNam…;

I have not extended my Kelleher family searches to Macroom beyond scouring the Aghabullogue registers at nli.ie. There were some Kelleher/Waters families in Donoughmore parish, notably Denis Kelleher married to Catherine Waters with children from 1816 to 1825. Also a John Kelleher married to Catherine Waters in GLantane circa 1859, later of Beeing/Bweeng. Maybe some of these links help. Happy hunting.

 

stignaz

Thursday 11th March 2021 06:39PM

Thank you so much! That information is fantastic- especially regarding William who I believe is George's brother, I have come across Derryroe a few times and wondered about the link - this will definitely help..
Woukd you say that generally people stayed around the same sort of area? I'm trying to find the parents of John Waters who married Elizabeth Wiseman in Aghabullogue in 1804 - I believe the groom went to the brides parish to be married?  I think Johns father was called William Waters - due to the naming traditions I found on your site. In marriage bonds I have found William Waters and Lovdy Cuttle marrying in C and Ross 1700's? 

KMB

Thursday 11th March 2021 10:36PM

KMB, An Irish gal once told me that genealogy is not very popular in Ireland because it's just not exotic to discover your third great grandparents lived down the road. So, in her family's case, they probably did not venture far except by foot, horse cart or eventually bicycle. I also heard that grooms married in bride's parish church traditionally. That is shown in my great great grandparents marriage in Coachford in 1866. Of course many people emigrated from the famine times on, so finding your cousins all over the world is sort of exotic, right? My line made it to California but cousins still have dairy farms on their ancestral land in Clonmoyle, Aghabullogue.

One of the problems you will find in confidently connecting your lines is the part of Cty Cork your family is from is known as a "black spot" for records. A few years ago I went through every Catholic Register in Aghabullogue, Donoughmore, Mallow and Whitechurch to transcribe any record with the surnames I knew about in my family. This allowed me to assemble a few families to the mid-1850s but confidence past that point is pretty squishy.  It took ages, requiring patience, good eyesight and the ability to input "?gh..." on records that were nearly indecipherable. Buttressed by 1901/1911 census, Tithe Applotments, Griffiths, Civil Reg records, military archives, the hope is to one day have more confidence in what lead up to these families. Just keep going at your family names on all the resources, keep track of where you found them and ask new questions of what you find. You can hire researchers in Dublin to do look ups for you at the national archives. 

Take a look at www.beyond2022.ie for a glimpse of hope. They are digitally reconstructing the Four Courts and it is very exciting, especially for an amateur genealogy archives oriented library person as myself.

stignaz

Saturday 13th March 2021 05:40PM

Thank you so much for getting back to me - as you say the confidence to move back is definitely an issue - the naming traditions have been very useful to me so far, but approaching the 1700's fill me with a scratchy head full of squeaky mice!  : ) The hope in the 2022 project is massive - I can't wait! 
I began my search due to my grandfather telling my mother as a girl that the Waters family came from France.. the need to trace back came from there... he worked in UK at Somerset House- records office. Sadly nothing was recorded by him. He was the son of a Cork boy who came to UK and settled here. 
As I have struggled to go back any further I have wondered if the family came from UK originally- and before that no idea.. looking at history there are many indications that this could be the case? 
Thank you again for your help and roll on 2022! : ) 

KMB

Sunday 14th March 2021 05:27PM

Waters and Wiseman both have an Englishness to them, right? Like Lyons in my family, proximity and imperialism brought a lot of English names to Ireland. It is easy to imagine Lyons and Waters could come from French sources. Like the English name Norton came with William the Conqueror with the French as de Norville in 1067, evolving to Northmann then Norton. The Domesday Book is considered a genealogical treasure in that it aimed to take a picture of every one (male) in medieavel England whether landowner or serf. William placed all the conquered land under the watchful eye of his continental lieutenants meaning all of England was under French and associated soldier/conquerors who came with William. French, Belgians, Dutch, German, etc. My mother told me she had French ancestry which did not seem believable until a librarian pointed me to the French Filles du Roi and Carignane Saliere soldiers sent to Canada in the 17th century to suppress the Iroquois and make New France more French. The history is fascinating and complicated. Fortunately the English are pretty good record keepers so I wish you luck there! 

stignaz

Monday 15th March 2021 08:05PM

Hi there - I'm so sorry, I have only just come accross your message! Thank you for your reply. I have done a few searches with 'Born In' England and 'Married' in Ireland or died in Ireland - I have also tried a few born in France the same..I just dont know how to find the link between the move from England to Ireland.. its not easy.. Could I be cheeky and ask where you would suggest I search please? I have subsrcrpitions to Ancestry and Find my Past - I am reading the history books too.. O'Hart and Samuel  Smiles have mentioned the name.. I have found Waters who were listed in the Register of Aliens - Henry V111 and James.  I almost feel I should research backwards to see if anything fits? 

 

KMB

Saturday 27th March 2021 12:54PM

Hello KMB, you could search books at the Iternet Archive. For example, I plug in "Waters family history" and select "search texts content" returning 400k results. Some of these are about the Waters family.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=waters+family+history&sin=TXT&page…

I don't have any experience with English resources but I would watch some presentations on youtube or via familyhistorydaily.com and browse around the British National Archives. 
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Keep track of where you've searched, search terms used, and notate results so you can go back if needed and cite sources. My citations are usually for blocks of data like "registers.nli.ie Mallow 05003/02 Marriages" so I know I have scoured that source.

Ireland considers connecting with the emigrated diaspora as an asset-part of a foreign policy and national pride, so they put more effort into creating a lot of free resources online. I'm not sure England has the same mandate to reach out to those culturally identifying as British.

stignaz

Friday 2nd April 2021 02:31PM

Hi stignaz,

Thank you once again for all of your help - there is a book The Waters or Walters of Cork that may help - that will mean a trip to Ireland as its held in the National Library., maybe our Waters link in there somewhere? .No Idea when I can get there! I have taken your advice and am in the process of looking at the wills - my feeling now is that they were in Cork City before they branched out to Aghinah and Agabullogue.. I have searched thet Microfilms for Aghabullogue but they do not start until 1820, so too late to search for Sponsors etc.. There is no quick way to do this I understand that - I just so wish I could find John's father - one day it will happen I guess..

Just one more thing - I see that there is a St Finbars Church in Cork City and another one near to Kilmichael.. Will check out how to decipher between the 2.. Also am busy checking Cloyne Microfilms - no mention yet and am up to 1805..hence my Cork City theory.

 

Thank you 

KMB

KMB

Thursday 15th April 2021 04:25PM

 

Hi KMB, if you are Karen I think it's ironic that you and stigmaz are both dna related to me! (Liz Richardson nee Kelleher). Small world! Signaz is an oracle when it comes to genealogy. 

 

 

 

Lizr54

Wednesday 30th March 2022 12:24PM

Hi Liz! I had no idea that the three of us are dna related? That's really interesting.. where to from here to find our link I wonder?

KMB

Wednesday 30th March 2022 08:20PM

Hello again KMB and Liz. AncestryDNA has updated my 20ish% "Irish" genes to 41% "Scot", meaning Ulster Scot, gawd forbid, hard to explain for someone with Irish great grandparents from between the Blackwater and the River Lee.  Rose, the librarian next to me at work yesterday was still in green wool and sparkles though, claiming she has the entire month to celebrate St Paddy. I had not heard of that American tradition and it made me wonder if this exaggggeration is related to the fuzziness in Irish concepts around time, dates and stories. She also told me of her cousin in Ireland that got covid although with 5 vaccinations and never leaving the house. Methinks the cousin recalls her exposure levels with fuzziness too. Or Maybe the cousin is a mink farmer and a few of the vaxes were just spritzes of Holy Water?

If you are stateside KMB, Try requesting the Waters or Walters of Cork book through your library's ILL/Inter-Library Loan with this link: http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/1174816.  There are three copies listed. If you need guidance in the request, I can help. Too bad it isn't digitized and searchable.  

 

 

stignaz

Wednesday 30th March 2022 10:24PM