Do you have any knowledge an Eliza Hutchinson who was born in the Aghadowey area in 1838 and died in Cullycapple 5 Nov 1914? She married Robert Shirley. I have no more information on Eliza. Thanks
Isabella (Isa) Alexandra McNeary Hutchinson 1894
Back to ListIsabella (Isa) Alexandra McNeary Hutchinson, the seventh child of Knox Hutchinson and Margaret Elizabeth Forgrave, was born Presbyterian in Garvagh, Errigal, Coleraine, Ireland, on 6 February 1894, where Knox was a Spirit Merchant and owned a Pub.
Her siblings were:
- Margaret Forgrave Hutchinson, born 3 July 1880 and died single 6 July 1937 in Belfast;
- William John Meek Hutchinson, born in 1882 in Garvagh, and married Elizabeth E. Chism in 1908 in Philadelphia, PA;
- Mary Ann (Minnie) Huchinson, born in 1884 in Garvagh, and married William E. Morrison Jr in Alleghany, PA, USA in 1906;
- Thomas James Hutchinson, born in 1886 in Garvagh, married Martha Jane Halliday in 1912 in Belfast and after her death, married Euphemia Clark Bethune in 1921 in Niles, OH;
- Robert Knox Hutchinson, born in 1889 in Garvagh, married Johanna Dalton in 1915 in Belfast;
- Elizabeth Forgrave Hutchinson, born 1891 in Garvagh, married John Henry Bradley Sr in 1915 in Belfast;
- Sarah Jane "Sally" Hutchinson born in 1896 in Aghadowey, Coleraine, married Robert Charles Stanley Bower Jr in 1919 in Belfast;
- Hugh Smith Morrison Hutchinson born in 1898 in Belfast, and married Alberta A. Swager in 1935, in Erie, PA, USA.
A few months after Isa was born, Knox sold his pub in Garvagh and the family moved to Aghadowey where her Mother, Margaret's family lived. Then by 1897, the family moved to Belfast. Isa lived with the family until she married. In 1911, she was 17 and worked as a Packer of canned goods. On 11 August 1914, at age 20, Isa married George Cree Jamison in Belfast. They moved into 16 Harrisburg Street, Belfast. George was a Ship Carpenter in 1911 and worked at the Harland & Wolff shipyard building the Titanic with his brother, John, a ship's caulker, Isa's brother, Tommy Hutchinson, Tommy's wife, Martha Halliday's two brothers James and Thomas (and later, family members Hugh Hutchinson, and Robert Charles Stanley Bower). In 1914, George was a Shipwright. George's parents were John Jamison, an Engineer and Captain of the Belfast Fire Brigade, and Elizabeth Crea, both born in Co Down, Ireland.
John and Lizzie Jamison had 9 children, one of whom died young. Isa and George moved to 63 Copperfield Street, Belfast by 1917 and had five children: John Douglas Jamison, born in Belfast in 1915, who's wife was Emily; Margaret Forgrave Jamison born in Belfast in 1917 who married William "Billy" Best; George Cree Jamison Jr., who was born in Belfast in 1920, who married Winnie; Isabella Jamison and Albert (Bertie) Jamison who both were both born in Belfast, but we do not know when. Bertie married Ida Scott. George Sr. died 17 April 1934 in Belfast at age 41. He is buried in Dundonald Cemetery. Isa continued to live in the family home at 63 Copperfield Street until 1939. Isa married Hugh Wallace on 18 June 1945 in Belfast at Sinclair Seaman's Church and they resided at 24 Lothair Avenue Belfast until at least 1960. Isa died 17 January 1974 in Belfast.
| Additional Information | ||
|---|---|---|
| Date of Birth | 6th Feb 1894 | VIEW SOURCE |
| Date of Death | 17th Jan 1974 | |
| Father (First Name/s and Surname) | Knox Hutchinson B. 1847 Garvagh, Errigal D. 1912 Belfast | |
| Mother (First Name/s and Maiden) | Margaret Elizabeth Forgrave B. 1859 Aghadowey D. 1923 Niles, OH USA | |
| Names of Siblings | Margaret b. 1880 William b. 1882 Mary Ann (Minnie) b. 1884 Thomas b. 1886 Un-named baby girl b. 1888 Robert b. 1889 Elizabeth b. 1891 all in Garvagh Sarah (Sally) b. 1896 Aghadowey Hugh b. 1898 Belfast | |
| Spouse (First Name/s and Maiden/Surname) | George Cree Jamison M. 11 August 1914 Belfast B. 15 May 1893 Belfast D. 17 April 1934 Belfast Hugh Wallace M. 18 June 1945 Sinclair Seaman's Church, Belfast | VIEW SOURCE |
| Names of Children | John Douglas Jamison b. 1915 Margaret Forgrave Jamison b. 1917 George Cree Jamison Jr. B. 1920 Isabella Jamison Albert (Bertie) Jamison All born in Belfast | |
| Place of Death | Belfast, Northern Ireland 17 January 1974 | |
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Comments
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gcon60
Sunday 4th July 2021 09:13AM -
I don't know much about Eliza Hutchinson and have not been able to connect her to our Hutchinson family as described above. I do know that she and Robert Shirley had at least five children:
According to Eliza's death record, James, son, was present at the death of Eliza on 5 Nov 1914 in Cullycapple, Aghadowey. She is listed as the widow of a laborer age 76. Based on the age listed at death, she was likely born about 1838. No birth record has been found for James Shirley, so presumably he was born before 1864.
John Shirley born 1865 in Caheny.
Patrick was born in 1868 in Caheny. Patrick was baptised in Garvagh. Robert was listed as a Laborer
Thomas born 1871 in Caheny and baptized in Garvagh.
Mary Jane born 21 April 1874 in Caheny and baptized in Garvagh
Robert Shirley died 19 Dec 1874 in Caheny. Age 39 and a Laborer. Eliza was present at death. Based on the age listed, he was born about 1835. Based on this, Mary Jane would be the last child born and Eliza did not remarry.
There are two trees built on Ancestry.com who list another son, Robert Shirley, born about 1857/58 in Coleraine and died 1934 in Glasgow Springburn, Lanarkshire Scotland. I was unable to locate any records for him to confirm this information. Both trees only list this one son, and none of the other children.
We have a dna match with a descendant of a James Hutchinson born in 1837 in Pittsburg, PA who's parents were Hugh Hutchinson and Jane Adair. We have not been able to link them definitively to our family other than thru dna matching. I suspect our oldest known relative, William Hutchinson born about 1775 must have had at least one brother who had the son Hugh Hutchinson listed above. William Sr. had two sons, William Jr (who we are descended from) and Hugh Hutchinson who married a woman named Sarah. They farmed farmlands across the road from each other in Mettican Glebe.
It is possible Eliza was also descended from this suspected brother of William Sr. Age wise, she would be a grandchild of him.
Some thoughts:
Our Hutchinson ancestors were of Scottish descent. They were Presbyterian. Knox and Margaret Hutchinson were married in the Aghadowey Presbyterian Church. Maybe you could research the Marriage records from that church, for Eliza and Robert to learn the identity of Eliza 's father? You would have to research thru PRONI either yourself or thru a paid researcher.The children were all baptised in Garvagh. Our ancestors were baptised in Third Garvagh Presbyterian Church as the pastor from Aghadowey Presbyterian Church had moved to Third Garvagh. I would look to see which church they were baptised in. Again this research would be conducted at PRONI. It may not help a lot, but if we could establish that they were baptised in Third Garvagh or Aghadowey Presbyterian Church, it becomes more plausible that the two families may be linked.
Have you done an Ancestry.com dna test? I could look for matches to you within the 10 descendants in that line that have tested to see if we could find a match. I did check for a dna match to the two people who own the public trees, but they either are not a match, or have not tested, to the three people who's dna I manage.
I have used a researcher in Ireland previously, as I live in the US and would recommend her to you if you need someone to go to PRONI on your behalf.
If you would like to reach out, my email address is: jululu30@yahoo.com
Julie
Jules Osborn
Tuesday 6th July 2021 12:22AM -
In case you, Elwyn, or another researcher, would like to follow my research, here are links to the primary resources found on irishgenealogy.ie
Eliza's death record, also establishes son James
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/0888…Robert Shirley's death record in 1874:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/758d…John's birth in 1865
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/6e64…Patrick's birth in 1868
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/4dc7…Thomas birth in 1871:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/037c…Mary Jane in 1874, record uses last name spelled Shirlay, but appears to be a transcription error.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/cf37…A further thought. It seems that Robert and James are likely the oldest two sons. Eliza would have been about 20 when Robert was born in 1857/58. So James would likely be born between 1859 - 1963. If the family followed Irish naming patters, then Elizabeth's father could be James Hutchinson. Looking at the 1831 census for County Londonderry, there are two James Hutchinson's listed.
This one for "James Hutchinson" in Meclarey
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/…And this one for "Jas Hutchinson" in Culderry
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/…Unfortunately, there are no census records available for 1841 for County Londonderry. But it could give you leads as to where to look for Christening records for Eliza if you can in fact determine her father was James thru her marriage records. Aghadowey Presbyterian Church marriage records begin in 1855, so it may be possible to find a marriage record for Robert and Elizabeth if it occured there. Another possibility would be they married at the Aghadowey Church of Ireland. Their marriage records date back to 1845, but I believe they are in the church's possession and not in PRONI.
Hope this is helpful!
JulieJules Osborn
Tuesday 6th July 2021 03:59AM -
This really is a pleasant surprise. I did not think I would establish a link with your Hutchinson family The area in Coleraine was the only connection that offered some hope. Thank you very much. It is a lot of information and all very useful. I will digest it and get back to you.
I will also email you to explain my involvement. It is mainly with the Shirley side.
Regards
gcon60
Tuesday 6th July 2021 05:53PM -
My researcher in Ireland was doing some additional work for me, and agreed to look for information on Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchinson. Her findings are below.
"The records below show that Robert and Eliza’s children were baptised in Coleraine Roman Catholic church so it is most likely that they married there. This is also likely why a civil record for their marriage is not coming up as Catholic marriages did not begin to be registered until 1864. We have contacted Coleraine Roman Catholic church to see if they hold marriage records pre-1858.
Look for baptismal records for the children of Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchinson.
The children of Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchinson were baptised in Coleraine Roman Catholic church. We located baptismal records for the following children:Robert Shirley. Baptised 21 March 1858. Parents: Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchison. Sponsors: John Gildea and Mary Jane Hutchison.
James Shirley. Baptised 13 January 1860. Parents: Robert Shirley and Eliza Mckatchin. Sponsors: Patrick Mcerlane and Mary Cutchin.
John Shirley. Baptised 11 October 1865. Parents: Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchon of Kahiney. Sponsors: James Shirley and Margaret Hutchon.
Patrick Shirley. Baptised 28 June 1868. Parents: Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutcheon of Caheny. Sponsors: John Mccann and Mary Jane Hutcheon.
Thomas Shirley. Baptised 11 June 1871. Parents: Robert Shirley and [blank] Hutchin of Cohiney. Sponsors: James Shirley and [blank] Hutchin.
Mary Jane Shirley. Baptised 12 April 1874. Parents: Robert Shirley and Liza Hutchin of Caheny. Sponsors: William Doherty and Mary Dunlop."
It was customary at the time to marry in the Bride's church, so this would indicate that Eliza was likely Catholic. It also established birth order and approximate dates of births for Robert and James, since civil records were not kept at the time.
Hope this is also helpful for you!
Jules Osborn
Sunday 18th July 2021 09:37PM -
My researcher in Ireland was doing some additional work for me, and agreed to look for information on Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchinson. Her findings are below.
"The records below show that Robert and Eliza’s children were baptised in Coleraine Roman Catholic church so it is most likely that they married there. This is also likely why a civil record for their marriage is not coming up as Catholic marriages did not begin to be registered until 1864. We have contacted Coleraine Roman Catholic church to see if they hold marriage records pre-1858.
Look for baptismal records for the children of Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchinson.
The children of Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchinson were baptised in Coleraine Roman Catholic church. We located baptismal records for the following children:Robert Shirley. Baptised 21 March 1858. Parents: Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchison. Sponsors: John Gildea and Mary Jane Hutchison.
James Shirley. Baptised 13 January 1860. Parents: Robert Shirley and Eliza Mckatchin. Sponsors: Patrick Mcerlane and Mary Cutchin.
John Shirley. Baptised 11 October 1865. Parents: Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutchon of Kahiney. Sponsors: James Shirley and Margaret Hutchon.
Patrick Shirley. Baptised 28 June 1868. Parents: Robert Shirley and Eliza Hutcheon of Caheny. Sponsors: John Mccann and Mary Jane Hutcheon.
Thomas Shirley. Baptised 11 June 1871. Parents: Robert Shirley and [blank] Hutchin of Cohiney. Sponsors: James Shirley and [blank] Hutchin.
Mary Jane Shirley. Baptised 12 April 1874. Parents: Robert Shirley and Liza Hutchin of Caheny. Sponsors: William Doherty and Mary Dunlop."
It was customary at the time to marry in the Bride's church, so this would indicate that Eliza was likely Catholic. It also established birth order and approximate dates of births for Robert and James, since civil records were not kept at the time.
Hope this is also helpful for you!
Jules Osborn
Sunday 18th July 2021 09:37PM -
Julie,
This is great information and thanks once again for continuing with your research and for sharing it with me. The Shirleys in Glasgow are catholic so that obviously stems from the Eliza Hutchinson days. It also means that their marriage record will remain a mystery. I was hoping that this would take me back further.
I will be in touch.
Regards,
Gerard
gcon60
Monday 19th July 2021 07:09PM
