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I'm just looking for help regarding the Diocese of Elphin census. Does anyone know of any consensus regarding the coverage of the census? There are a few townlands that appear to be missing. For example, I can't find the townland of Cloonsheever. It doesn't appear as if the townland was renamed or separated from a larger townland since a map exists featuring Cloonsheever created in 1716. I was hoping to get an indication of whether my ancestors could have been living there in 1749 or moved to Cloonsheever some time after that. I'd appreciate any help.

RoscommonGenealogy

Friday 1st Jul 2022, 07:39PM

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  • Hi there

    From my research into the Elphin Census for a neighboring parish it's likely the townland is listed but in disguise / severe misspelling (unless there were no residents at all). 

    Elphin Census townland spellings can sometimes be totally unrecognisable. Tibohine has so many townlands so it's a huge undertaking to try and match each and eliminate. Logainm.ie archives older record spelling/ name alternatives but unfortunately not in the case of Cloonsheever

    I tried searching the Elphin Census for other family names recorded there in the 1825 tithes for "Clonshower" but with no luck. What it does tell me is that there was quite a bit of wasteland in Cloonsheever at that time (before bog reclamation commenced). And that suggests very few of those small-holdings would have had security of tenure with then landlord Arthur French Esq.

    Thomas Cregg and partners held 32 Irish acres between them. And even then, would not have had a freehold lease. Your ancestor may have been among those unnamed partners. The next step would be to research who was godparenting for these named men (to discover who these "partner" neighbours were) in and about 1825. 

    Its 17th century Down Survey name was Clonshamer (should feature right of Eden and north of Clonarow which are mapped). Owned by the Catholic Dillon family, the  1659 Census records 10 occupants all English (no natives). 

    Have you tried the soundex name search facility on https://leitrim-roscommon.com/elphin/ ?

     

    Rua, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘︎

    Wednesday 6th Jul 2022, 07:59AM
  • Thank you for the reply. It is possible that there might not have been anyone living in Cloonsheever at the time. I guess that I assumed that there must be at least one person living in each townland. It is poor land so might have been avoided for a long time. I actually bought the census from the Manuscript Commission. There are 84 townlands listed with some repeating. It seems to encompass a large area from Loughglynn to Castleplunkett. These are the townlands listed in Tibohine parish:

    1. Frenchpark

    2. Turlogh (could be Turlagharee or Turlaghnamaddy)

    3. Rakery (Rathkeery)

    4. Ratra

    5. Ochorin (Aghacurreen)

    6. Caranruddy (?)

    7. Mullin (Mullen)

    8. Cooldavin (? recorded in an 1814 directory) 

    9. Aghalour

    10. Cloonard

    11. Cloonfinglas

    12. Carokeel (lots of Carrowkeel townlands but I'm not sure if there are any in the Tibohine area, maybe Parkeel?)

    13. Edon (Eden)

    14. Cloonarra (Cloonarragh)

    15. Taunirover (Tawnyrover)

    16. Kilgarive (Kilgarve)

    17. Lisananny (Lissananny)

    18. Tullynashoge (an old name for Tully?)

    19. Cloondart

    20. Cornehulty (?)

    21. Derrinomekan (Derreenamackaun)

    22. Gortiganny (Gortaganny)

    23. Carabehy (Carrowbehy)

    24. Cooligary (Coolgarry)

    25. Loughglin (Loughglynn)

    26. Legatinty

    27. Cloonshanvil (Cloonshanville)

    28. Curska (Corskeagh)

    29. Carogarive (Carrowgarve)

    30. Errit

    31. Caronhard (?)

    32. Lisergool (Lissergool)

    33. Balimagarra (?)

    34. Kilteboe (Cuiltyboe)

    35. Cahir (Caher)

    36. Errit (Errit)

    37. Balliglass (Ballyglass)

    38. Clontorwart (Cloontowart)

    39. Derreen (Derrinea)

    40. Caronokneran (Carrownaknockaun)

    41. Curroghsallow (Curraghsallagh)

    42. Creevy

    43. Erizan (?)

    44. Cloonaraget (Cloonargid)

    45. Taunadrisoge (When I look it up, a paper appears from NUIG. It's in Irish so I can't be sure that I understand it correctly but page 114 of document/131 of pages seems to record what the townland was known as down through the years. The last year was 1738 and it was recorded as Tawnedrishoge alias Curraghsallagh in 1663 so maybe it is part of Curraghsallagh now. Actually, the literal translation of Taunadrisoge is arable place of briers so it could be Briarfield)

    46. Curraghsalla (Curraghsallagh)

    47. Lisadely (Lissydaly)

    48. Cloonicaly (Cloonacolly)

    49. Kiltemane (Kiltymaine)

    50. Tullileag (?Could also be Tully. I can't read the full article https://www.jstor.org/stable/25535341 but it mentions Telach/Tulach Liag in relation to St. Patrick with the quote "as dwelling in Tullileag townland in the parish of Tibohine in Airteagh. This townland must therefore have been very small."

    51. Kiltebranly (Kiltybranks)

    52. Aghadriston (Aghadrestan)

    53. Clooncagh (Clooncah)

    54. Caracummeen (Corracommeen)

    55. Drummot (Drummad)

    56. Aghaderry 

    57. Fiegh (Figh)

    58. Cartoun (Cartron)

    59. Edon (Eden)

    60. Curriturpane (Curreentorpan)

    61. Barnecaly (Barnacawley)

    62. Moyne

    63. Corroghoghil (Corracoggil)

    64. Clegarna (?)

    65. Kilruddan (Kilroddan)

    66. Tenecreevy (Teevnacreevy)

    67. Ballinfull (Ballinphuill)

    68. Tibohin (Tibohine)

    69. Lisahark (Lissacurkia)

    70. Cloonfad

    71. Mullinashee (Mullaghnashee)

    72. Grallagh 

    73. Letrym (Leitrim)

    74. Lisdoo (Lisduff)

    75. Balliglass (Ballyglass)

    76. Bockil (Buckill)

    77. Listrumneal (Lisdrumneill)

    78. Driney 

    79. Cloonmullen (Cloonmullin)

    80. Clonbounogh (Cloonbunny)

    81. Drumenagh (Druminagh)

    82. Cleragh (Clerragh)

    83. Bryanmore (Breanamore)

    84. Raheely/Rahealy (Rahelly)

     

    That leaves around 8 townlands that I can't match up with a modern name for a townland.

    RoscommonGenealogy

    Wednesday 6th Jul 2022, 06:04PM
  • I'm surprised by how much the populations changed in different townlands. I was checking to see if another line was living in the same townland in 1749 and the surnames in the townland were all completely different. On top of that, I was surprised to see every single person living in the townland were servants rather than farmers.

    I don't think that my Kelly ancestors would have been living in Cloonsheever in 1749 but I was just hoping for confirmation.

    I'm not sure if this is what you mean but Thomas Cregg and Mary Fahey had five baptisms recorded between 1822 and 1835 in Loughglynn Catholic parish. The godparents were Patrick Cuff, Mary Mulrenan, John Fahey, Mary Cregg, James Fahey, Catherine Mulrenan, Roger Egan, Bridget Egan, Timothy Fahy and Catherine Mulrany. The last baptism had the address recorded as Cloonsheever.

    There were three baptisms recorded for Patrick Egan and Mary Cregg's children in Loughglynn parish between 1823 and 1835. The godparenst were Patrick Lynch, Mary Lynch, Patrick Cuff, Mary Lynch, John Simon & Anne Egan. None of the children had their address recorded.

    A baptism for a child with parents Edward Dockery and Catherine Finan in 1830 had godparents Patrick Dockery and Mary Walsh. No address.

    A baptism for a child with parents Terence Freal and Mary Houston in 1831 had godparents Thady Freal and Mary McElroy. There was actually a W. Huetson (Protestant and wife Papist) in 1749 in Cuiltyboe.

    Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate the reply.

    RoscommonGenealogy

    Wednesday 6th Jul 2022, 09:05PM
  • Attached Files
    1659 tibohine.png (146.17 KB)

    Also thank you very much for mentioning the 1659 census. I hadn't realised that it was available online. However, I don't see Cloonsheever or a similar variation recorded under Tibohine. I've attached what I'm seeing. You might have a different source showing something different? Thank you.

    RoscommonGenealogy

    Wednesday 6th Jul 2022, 10:04PM
  • Regarding the 1659 Census, "Clonshamer" (Cloonsheever) doesn't appear on the old map but it was recorded as having a population of 10 Englishmen.

    Regarding the 1749 Elphin Census, I'm picking through the list you gave me and resolved a few placenmane you queried but need more time to pick through the remainder. 

    I've set your list up on a timeline here for easier accessibility – and will update it as I go.: timeline/elphin-census-tibohine-parish

    Regarding the godparent search, I'll get to that next. 

     

    All the best

    Rua, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘︎

    Tuesday 12th Jul 2022, 05:24AM
  • That's a good idea to put the list of townlands on a timeline.

    Would you be able to refer me to the source that you're using for the 1659 census that records Clonshamer as having a population of 10 Englishmen? This is where I have accessed the 1659 census after clicking 'download PDF' on the webpage: https://www.irishmanuscripts.ie/product/a-census-of-ireland-circa-1659/…;

    If the above link is where you are also accessing this information, could you please provide me with the page number that you're looking at or even what parish Clonshamer is listed under since, as shown in the image attached in my previous message, the townland is not listed under Tibohine? Tibohine in that document is recorded as 585 on the page or page 613 in the navigation bar. 

    Thank you.

    RoscommonGenealogy

    Tuesday 12th Jul 2022, 11:03PM
  • See http://downsurvey.tcd.ie/landowners.php#mc=53.811919,-8.481824&z=14

     

    Townland of CLOONSHEEVER

    Down Survey Name: Clonshamer
    1641 Owner(s): Dillon, Sir Luke (Catholic)
    1670 Owner(s): Dillon, Theobald (Catholic)
    County: Roscommon
    Barony: Boyle
    Parish: Taghboyhin
    Unprofitable land: 62 plantation acres
    Profitable land: 289 plantation acres
    1659 Census
    Total: 10
    English: 10
    Titulado: Walter Davis

    Rua, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘︎

    Monday 18th Jul 2022, 06:16AM
  • Thank you for the reply. That has cleared it up. It makes me wonder which is correct. It looks like the Down's Survey is incorrect to me. In the attached image in the previous message, Walter Davis is associated with the townland Clunesanmoyle in the Irish Manuscript 1659 census. There were 10 people recorded in this townland but they're under the Irish column. Perhaps that is where the Down's Survey is getting the number? I checked Eadon in the Down's Survey. Like the Irish Manuscript 1659 census, there are 8 people recorded as living there and Theobald Dillon is associated with the townland. However, these 8 people are recorded as Irish in the Irish Manuscript 1659 census while the Down's Survey records them as English. I would be surprised if these townlands were only occupied by English people, especially when the land wouldn't have been very good.

    RoscommonGenealogy

    Wednesday 20th Jul 2022, 02:58PM
  • Leitrim townland is the same. The Irish Manuscript 1659 census has 4 Irish while the Down's Survey has 4 English. 

    RoscommonGenealogy

    Wednesday 20th Jul 2022, 03:16PM

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