Alexander Jordan & wife Isabella Little born about 1800 County Down & County Monaghan

Do you have any more information on Isabella and her parents George & Ann. Do you know what denomination they were or where in Monaghan they lived? If it helps, I looked in the 1901 census of Monaghan and most were Church of Ireland (ie Anglican) though there were a few Presbyterians. Do you know what George’s occupation was?

Without knowing the denomination and where they lived, it can be a needle in a haystack. Many Church of Ireland records from that period are lost (in the 1922 fire in Dublin). And not all the records that have survived are on-line, so it’s tricky to search comprehensively.

Do you have evidence that Alexander Jordan came from Co. Down? Or is that speculation based on internet trawls? It’s a common surname in Down (280 in the 1901 census) but there were also 28 in Co. Monaghan. So perhaps he came from there? What information do you have?

Here’s a link to a Co. Down site with a hundred Jordans, or so:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/%7Erosdavies/SURNAMES/J/JiJu.htm

The name is common and so without some idea of where he came from, and confirmation of his parents names (from a death certificate perhaps) it’s another needle in haystack. There are 8 Alexanders on that site, including the one you have mentioned, but without some corroboration, it may just be a guess that this is the right family.

Bear in mind that 70% of the church records for the early 1800s are lost, and that not all the remaining records are on-line. So just because you have found someone of the right name and age doesn’t mean you have the right one. There may have been others whose records are lost.

So what information do you have?

Hello Elwyn,

From the Canadian Census records, land records and death registrations:

Alexander Jordan: Secessionist; born 1800/1801 Down, Ireland; immigrated to Ontario, Canada before 1843; farmer here in Canada - grains, vegetable, maple syrup, sheep, fulled cloth, flannel; wife Isabella Little but I don't know if they married in Ireland or Canada (I have not found any of them on a passenger list); they had only one child and named him David.

Isabella Little: born 1803/1804 Monaghan, Ireland.  She had a sister Sarah born 1805 Monaghan, Ireland who married John Alexander McAllister born abt 1800 Down, Ireland (he immigrated sometime between 1822 & 1837). McAllisters were Church of England, Littles were Church of Scotland.

George Little: wife Anne, father of Isabella; Church of Scotland; born 1771-1780 Ireland; living in Lanark, Ontario, Canada 1838; he was a weaver.

I know it's not much to go on but I can always hope.  Alex'r Jordan and Mary Fagan as Alex's parents is just a speculation. I found that info on the rosdavies site. 

Thank you for taking an interest.

Donna

Donna,

Well it sounds as though there’s clear information about where Alexander and Isabella originated. I asked because if Alexander came from a farming background as he seems to have done, then that made it difficult to travel, as farmers could not spend long periods away from the farm. Cows need milked twice a day and there are a thousand other things to attend to. Farmers nearly always married someone who lived close by. In the 1820s, most courting was done on foot, so necessity meant you chose a spouse who lived within 5 miles.  That doesn’t mean he couldn’t have met a girl from Monaghan (70 miles away). Perhaps she was working as a maid in the area where he lived, or perhaps they met on the boat to Canada. A lot of relationships started that way.  Put a load of unmarried young people on a boat for 3 or 4 weeks, with nothing much to do, and relationships will flourish.

One thing I notice is that you say that Alexander was a secessionist. So he was a Presbyterian. However the Alexander baptised in Dromore in 1803 was Church of Ireland (ie Anglican). So that doesn’t fit very well.  You would expect his baptism to be in a Presbyterian church, of one sort or another. Mirroring the schisms in Scotland, there are various types of Presbyterianism in Ireland. There’s the main Presbyterian church in Ireland, but there’s also Non Subscribing (sometimes known as Unitarian) and Reformed Presbyterians (sometimes called Covenanters). There must be at least 100 Presbyterian churches in Co. Down but probably only about 10 have any records for 1800-1810. So there’s a high probability that Alexander’s baptism record is lost or was never kept in the first place.

You describe Alexander as a secessionist. The general term for Presbyterians in Ireland was dissenters, because they dissented from the state church, the Church of Ireland/England. The term secessionist, in Ireland, meant that you were a Presbyterian who followed one of the schism branches of Presbyterianism, such as those I mentioned above. Some of the secession churches eventually merged back with the main Presbyterian church in Ireland. Some did not. In Scotland those secession churches would be the Free Church of Scotland (or “wee frees”, as we know them) and the Free Presbyterian church. My heart sinks if I see someone was a member of a secession congregation because they were dreadful at record keeping. Hardly any early records survive.

If the Littles were Church of Scotland, then obviously that means they were Presbyterian. There aren’t quite as many Presbyterian churches in Monaghan as in Down but again the problem is a lack of records for the early 1800s. By way of example I looked at some Presbyterian churches around Monaghan town. Clontibret’s records start in 1825, 1st Monaghan Presbyterian in 1821. 2nd Monaghan (aka Ballyalbany) starts in 1802 so you might just scrape in there.  But a lot are lost or were never kept in the first place. You can see what exists with the relevant start dates, on the PRONI website:

http://www.proni.gov.uk/guide_to_church_records.pdf

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church so if Sarah Little married John McAllister in Ireland, you would expect it to have been in a Presbyterian church. Some of these surviving records are on pay to view sites like rootsireland but many are not. You might need to get a researcher to plod through them in PRONI for you, but the underlying issue is that the chances of success are not high because so few churches have records from that period.

You might get a match with DNA of course.

.

Thanks, Elwyn. :)

Elwyn,

I'm so excited.  Have to share with you.  I actually found something for George Little on ancestry.ca. Canada, British Regimental Registers of Service, 1756-1900.  I think the records must have been newly added.  George Little age 27 (weaver) born in Armagh, joined the 74th Foot Soldiers 27 Aug 1808 in Clonmel and was discharged in Halifax, Nova Scotia 24 Oct 1819.  This must be my gr gr gr grandfather. Also, a David Little age 26 (weaver) joined the 74th Foot Soldiers 27 Aug 1808 in Clonmel on the same day.  98% sure they are brothers and maybe this was Isabella's favourite or only uncle and she and Alex'r named their only child after him.  Woo Hoo! Might be on a roll now.  I'm off to see if this info leads me somewhere.

Donna

Canada, British Regimental Registers of Service, 1756-1900 Canada, British Regimental Registers of Service, 1756-1900 

Donna,

Sounds very promising. Let us know what you find.