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I can go no further need help please 

MY G Grandfather was Thomas blair born in ireland.

His parents- Thomas Blair & Mary Templeton

his parents Thomas Blair & Agnes Lamont of Camus, County Tyrone

I think his parents Joseph Blair & Christine Grimes

All this resorced from marriage certificates in Scotlands people

All from Thomas / Agnes up were in Greenock Scotland.please can you help to fill in the blanks

I am not only builing a family tree I want social history to know where I came from.

Cheers

Anne

Anne

Monday 19th July 2021, 12:30AM

Message Board Replies

  • I have had a look in the Irish statutory marriage records for the 3 couples you have named but can’t see any likely matches. The records start in 1845.  Can you give us some dates for when they likely were born, married or died? Did any of them die in Ireland? What denomination were they?

    The Scottish marriage certificates you have found should show the parents occupation(s) plus whether they were alive or dead on the date of the marriage. That information would be helpful too.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Monday 19th July 2021, 09:38AM
  • Hi Elwyn,

                    Wow Thanks so much for answering me. Here goes, please bare with me,

    Some will be before 1845 & I think one after 1845. OK here goes

    1)Thomas Blair   birh -Ireland            info Census

    W) Elizaeth McDougall

    2) Thomas Blair birth - Ireland             info census

    W) Mary Templeton

    Cnat find any info on these 2 after Thomas was 21acording to a censes

    3)Thomas Blair guess DOB about 1806  Birth place Ireland info census

    W) Agnes Lamont birth Camus Tyrone Ireland info census 1851

    Marriage 28/5/1853 Largs, Scotland

    1851 census Thomas, Agnes &  SON   age 20    living in same household

    1861 census Thomas (Blacksmith) & Agnes with thomas GRANDSON age 9 living in the same household

    1871 census Agnes a widow living with Thomas her GRANDSON age 21 living in same household

    In all census it states all born in Ireland

    CONCLUSION:    Thomas /Agnes & the Son & Grandson all born in Ireland

    Cannot find bith records  /  Realise this may be imposible  /   I think religion was protestant 

    Rhanks heaps for your time.

    Anne

    Anne

    Tuesday 20th July 2021, 01:02AM
  • Looking at the 1853 marriage in the Scotlandspeople indexes, I see that Thomas & Agnes are listed twice. Greenock New or Middle parish 28.5.1853 and Largs 11.6.1853. What that means is the couple came from different parishes and the banns were therefore read in both. It was a Church of Scotland ceremony so that usually indicates the bride at least was Presbyterian.

    If Thomas who married Elizabeth McDougall was born c 1850 in Ireland, and Thomas & Agnes are his grandparents, then the 1853 marriage really has to be a second marriage, in my opinion. Presumably Thomas (blacksmith) was married previously in Ireland and his first wife was dead by 1853. So is the 1851 census him with his first wife (also called Agnes), who must have died shortly after, and then he remarried in 1853? Agnes born c 1829 can’t be the grandmother of someone born in 1850, so there has to be a second marriage there.

    Agnes Lamont looks to have died in Largs in 1904 aged 75, so her death certificate may give you her parents details.

    Thomas Blair (married to Mary Templeton) looks to have been alive in 1871 when his son married Elizabeth McDougall. Mary Templeton was dead by 1871, according to the marriage certificate, though I can’t see a death for her in the Scotlandspeople’s indexes.

    Camus is one of the parishes close to Strabane in Co Tyrone. It was heavily settled by Scots in the 1600s as part of the Plantation of Ireland. Here’s a short description of it in 1837:

    https://www.libraryireland.com/topog/C/Camus-Juxta-Morne-Strabane-Tyrone.php

    Ireland lacks natural resources. No coal, oil, iron ore etc, and so apart from a modest amount of shipbuilding in Belfast and the Belfast linen mills (which mostly only employed women), it did not really get the industrial revolution that benefited England and Scotland where mills, steelworks, ship building, coal mining and all their support industries were major employers creating hundreds of thousands of new jobs. Much better paid than subsistence farming or weaving. Added to that you had the effects of a massive population explosion in Ireland – up from 3 million in 1750 to 8 million in 1841 (no-one is really sure of the reasons why but reduced neo-natal deaths seem to be a factor) and the famine. So some push factors and some pull factors saw huge numbers of people leave Ireland. Something like 8 million people emigrated from Ireland between 1801 & 1921.

    https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/emigration-Ireland-19th-century.html

    Scotland was a particularly popular place to go to work because it was easy and very cheap to get to. Regular sailings from Londonderry to Glasgow. (Londonderry is just a few miles from Strabane). The shipping companies main business was cargo and the passengers were just top-up revenue. Competition was fierce and passenger fares very low. People working in Scotland could come home for weddings or the harvest. For Presbyterians, Scotland also had the benefit of being culturally very close as well as geographically. The experience and welcome offered to a Presbyterian from Ireland was generally much better than that given to a Roman Catholic. For further information see:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/guides/zr6ycdm/revision/2

    You might find Agnes’s baptism in church records. If Presbyterian then Strabane 1st Presbyterian church has baptism records from 1828 and marriages from 1845. The Church of Ireland (Episcopalian) has records from 1803. Those records are not on-line so far as I am aware and you would need to go to PRONI in Belfast to look them up. That apart, there probably aren’t many other Irish records that might show this family. I sense that the family were labourers in Ireland and they can be very difficult to trace.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Tuesday 20th July 2021, 08:02AM
  • Wow I'm totally amazed at the information you have given me, not to mention the history which I knew nothing about.

    I shall put that in my social life of relatives, amazing. You are so quick & efficient at what you do. 

    I live in Australia now & can't get to anywhere in Scotland & Ireland anymore.

    Thank you so much for your help Elwyn I shall treasure it & keep my search moving on'

    Cheers

    Anne

    Anne

    Tuesday 20th July 2021, 10:10PM