Bob Erwin

Bob,

1883 marriage cert shows William Gray living in Duneany and Letitia in Kilcreen (Killycreen):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10931/5993941.pdf

I had a look for Letitia’s parents in Ireland, but without success. (Some trees on ancestry have the mother’s name as Letitia not Lecretia).

Regarding Robert Dickey marrying Mary Hurst, the Macchi tree on Ancestry says the bride was Ellen Hurst rather than Mary and that the couple married in 1865 in Illinois, with their daughter Louisa being born there too (7th May 1866).

I looked for a marriage in 1883 in Ireland between David Dickey and Jane Calderwood but couldn’t find one.  I did find a marriage in 1866 between David Dickey and Eliza Jane Calderwood in Killymurris 2nd. Is that the couple you are interested in? 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

Elwyn

Thank you for the quick response, The Gray wedding is correct. I got the name Lecretia form Williams marriage cert. In my research I've found it probably was Letitia. I believe Robert Dickeys wifes full name was Mary Ellen Hurst, David Dickey is the brother of  Robert, your marrage date is correct, I've confirned they were married at Killymurris through an obituary.  I think they had a third brother according to an obit named William. I think their all from around Duneany, Killycreen, Glenbuck, Calderwood. I visited the Killymurris cemetary and found 2 Erwin markers saying nothing more. One marker seemed to be a family, more than one burial. William Erwin's obi says he came straight from Ballymena to Belle Plaine Ia. I've always wondered why an 18 year old boy would come all the way from Ballymena NI to Belle Plaine Ia.? Also in Belle Plaine was a Dickey lady possible sister married to a Gaston. According to Griffiths a Gaston family leased ground from John Dickey in the same area as mentiond above. From what I've found Dickeys came from around Glasgow, Maybe in the eary 1880s. I know spelling doesn't mean much but there are and were a ton of Irvines, irwins in the southern borders around Dumffries and Bonshaw but I've only foun Erwins southeaset of Glasgow, I hope this helps and hope to hear from you soon

Sincerely

Bob

Bob,

You ask why an 18 year old boy would come from Ballymena to Old Plaine. In my experience it would be because he knew someone there. A close friend or relative had gone before and had arranged a job or accommodation for him. That was the normal arrangement. I don’t think many people stepped off the migrant ships in America with no idea where to go. Most had some sort of arrangements made.

Gaston is a fairly common name in the Ballymena area. Originally Huguenot I am told. There are about 15 Gaston graves in Killymurris 1st and a couple more in Killymurris 2nd. (I assume in your visit you were aware of the 2nd church and it’s graveyard, about a quarter of a mile north of Killymurris 1st. The congregation split around 1860 due to a serious disagreement over the Minister. Half the congregation established another church (2nd) which functioned for about 25 years till the 1st Minister died or retired. Then the 2 congregations re-united. The 2nd church was then used as the church hall until about 1970 when it was closed due to being delapidated. It was demolished around 1985 I think. I can remember it. It’s gone now but the graveyard is still in use.)

I know of 2 Erwin graves in Killymurris 1st (none in 2nd). As you say one just says Erwin. The other says: “Erected in memory of John Erwin, who died March 1937. Also his wife Mediah Brown, who died 1879. Also their sons John died October 1943. James died April 1950, in San Francisco, Matthew died November 1950.”

I note that several of your family were labourers/weavers. They usually couldn’t afford gravestones and so may well be in one of the Killymurris graveyards but without a gravestone. Since Presbyterians rarely kept burial records, there’s little way of finding precisely where they might be buried if there’s no stone.

This grave is in Killymurris 1st. It’s the family of Robert John Dickey of Killycreen who married Mary Maxwell in 1887 (in Killymurris). They were farmers, hence the gravestone.

Erected by Robert J Dickey In memory of his wife Mary M Dickey died 7th September 1899. His father Robert Dickey died 20th November 1892 His mother Jane Dickey died 11th December 1880. His sister M A Dickey died 17th September 1866 Also a sister who died  (transcript is incomplete).

For David Dickey and Eliza Jane Calderwood, I can see the following children, all presumably born in Killycreen (I didn’t check them all):

Jane 1.1.1869

Robert 22.9.1871

William 10.7.1873

David 25.6.1875

James 29.8.1878. (He was born Killycreen. I checked).

With the possible exception of the Gastons who may have French Huguenot origins, the vast majority of Presbyterians in Co. Antrim are descended from Scots settlers who arrived in the 1600s.  Some came as part of the Hamilton & Montgomery settlement, some came when a 10,000 strong Scots army was disbanded at Carrickfergus in the 1640s and they decided to stay, and there was a huge influx in the 1690s due to massive famine in Scotland at that time. Somewhere around 200,000 Scots settled in Ireland in the 1600s. (About 20% of the Scottish population).  Most in Ulster and huge numbers in Co. Antrim in particular. So the likely origins of the Dickey, Calderwood & Erwin families  will be Scotland, and often counties like Ayrshire and the borders, as you have identified. But the main migration was in the 1600s. By the 1700s the Scots were starting to leave again, and so whilst the odd Scot did arrive then it was very much against the flow. 

Killymurris 1st church was built in 1796. It was an overflow church for the congregation at Clough, a few miles away.  The population had grown so much that an extra church was required. Here’s an excerpt from a leaflet that Clough Presbyterian give to visitors, which gives a sense of their origins:

“Each year we have a number of visitors from abroad come to visit our Church where their ancestors once worshipped. Many of them are interested in the surviving Baptismal and Marriage Records. Our Congregation dates back to the 1640s. At one time it was the only Presbyterian Congregation on the Antrim Plateau between Kilraughts and Ballymena. This was 150 years before Killymurris Congregation was established by the Presbytery of Derry in 1796. In 1828 the Route Presbytery established a preaching station near Cloughmills for "Presbyterians in Drumadoon, Killagan and Loughgiel" and a request from the Presbyterians of Ballyweaney for a separate congregation in 1835 where their first minister was installed in 1840. Cloughwater congregation was not established until 1842. Newtowncrommelin congregation dates from 1826.

The late Rev. Robert Lennox speaking at Clough's Tercentenary Celebration Service in 1956 said, "Our congregation goes back to the time of Cromwell and the record of it's first 150 years reflected the unsettled conditions of Ireland through times of massacre, battle and persecution. The congregation was formed by those Presbyterians who came from Scotland to settle on the land. The earliest record of Clough was in the minutes of what was known as the Antrim Meeting, which then served the purpose of a Presbytery. Those minutes showed that there was a session in Clough on April 4, 1655; and that a Scottish Presbyterian, Hugh Peebles was appointed to preach in Clough in 1654. There is no evidence that Mr Peebles was ever installed as a minister."

So I am quite certain that your families originated in Scotland (these are not native Irish names. Where else would they have come from? Plus Presbyterianism was founded in Scotland and brought to Ireland by the Scots). But the arrival is likely to have been in the 1600s, not the 1800s.

MacLysaght’s “The Surnames of Ireland” says this about Irvine & Ervine: “ Usually Irving in Scotland. Though much confused with Irwin, this Scottish topynomic is of different origin; seldom found outside Ulster where it was established in the early 17th century. It is now numerous in Fermanagh and adjacent counties. See next entry.”

The next entry is Irwin, Erwin: “A sept of O’Hirwen did exist in Offaly, but nearly all Irwins are of planter stock in Ulster & Roscommon, their name when not a synonym of Irvine, being derived from the Old English eoforwine, boar friend.”

As far as the spelling of Erwin is concerned, it is just a variant of Irwin.  Some of them might be topynomic and so originate in Irvine (Ayrshire) but not necessarily. The idea of a single or correct spelling for a surname or a place name in Ireland is very much a recent phenomenon designed to meet the needs of modern officialdom. Before that there was no consistency. Names were spelled phonetically and each variation was down to the whim of the particular person recording the information. You will often see the spelling change as the records go back. This rarely indicates a deliberate decision to alter the name, nor even a mistake. Not everyone was literate, but even when they were, exact and consistent spelling simply wasn’t something they bothered about. In addition to varying the actual spelling, O’ or Mac prefixes were optional and were often omitted. 

In 1899, the Rev Smith reviewed the early records of Antrim 1st Presbyterian church (covering the years 1674 to c 1736). He noted: “Even the same word is not always spelled alike by the same hand. Indeed spelling with most of the recording officials (and they must have been fairly numerous) was a matter of the most sublime indifference. The name William, for instance, is spelled 3 different ways in as many lines; while Donegore, a neighbouring parish, is spelled 10 different ways; but these extend over a good number of years. Many families names are spelled phonetically, while others are given in the most round-about fashion.”

So expect spelling to vary. That was the norm.