Browns from Eglish

Hi John  . . . 

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out . . . 

Not sure . . . that far back .. . if we can help you . .  but lets see . . . 

I began by searching " Roots " (paid) . . . and . . yes . . . his data of Birth is recorded in 1810 in Geashill, Offaly (a.k.a Kings Co.). . . ( see below )

also Mary Walsh in 1810 Eglish .   . . (below) . . . her Parish was Eglish . . . his Geashill . . Eglish is.half way between Birr and Kilcormack

But then there is a Eglish. Co.Laoise. . . as well . . . many place names of Eglish in Ireland . . . 

close bye is " Walsh Island " . . . . 

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I searched .  . . http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Brown&firstname=&county=King%27s&townland=&parish=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=0

where you will see . . . on the above Tax roll ( 1823 - 1837) . . a number of John Brown's . . . in that area . . . but nothing definite . . . 

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with that same Tax Roll  . . . I looked for Walsh . . . but nearly 100 showed up . . . Page 1. . . shows " Ballyboy " . . which is close-by to both areas . . . 

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I found a " Family Tree " for ROBERT (1847) . . . (see below) . . . which may very well be . . your work . . . 

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CENSUS 1911 . . . (see below )

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https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0765

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I did not continue searching . . . the Family of Joseph . . . you appear to have good info. on them . . . 

Not sure if any of the above . . advances your search . . . . but . . . 

Best I could do . . . Good Luck with your continued searching . . . 

Cheers . . . Eamonn

Hi John (and Eamonn!),

Your message is of some interest to me although I am afraid I don't know anything about the Browns (other than what I've just located and recorded below) but I suspect that your Walshe (also written/pronounced as "Welsh") ancestors and my own were connected.

Rathure North is in the RC and Civil parishes of Drumcullen and Eglish (barony of Eglish) between the hamlet/villages of Killyon and Rath in Co. Offaly (then King's County). My own direct ancestors were the Walsh family from Cullaun (also Killawn), which (through the now defunct mass path) was less than half a mile (approx) from Rathure: https://www.townlands.ie/offaly/eglish/drumcullen/killyon/rathure-north/ My Great-grandmother was Mary Walshe. From research I've undertaken recently I have traced my Walsh family in Cullaun to at least the 1790s. From what I've been told, I'm related to all the people of that name in the parish through our common ancestry.

The "Walsh Island" that Eamonn mentions is near Edenderry at the other end of the county. I believe that the name is just a coincidence with no connection to our families.

It may be coincidence but the remaining fragments of the 1821 census records show

1. a Robert Brown, Publican with his wife Mary, 20 year old son Robert and daughter Margaret (27) in the town of Birr: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1821/King_s/Birr/Birr__Old_… (Coincidentally, 80 years later in 1901 a James Browne was recorded as a publican in Birr: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/King_s_Co_/Birr_Urban/…)
2. Robert Brown aged 11 (which fits with your DOB) living with father Patrick and mother Mary and siblings in what is described as "Tullow", Kinnitty but which is actually Tulla: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1821/King_s/Kinnity/Tullow/… Also known as Tulla and Crumlin: https://www.townlands.ie/offaly/ballybritt/kinnitty/tulla/tulla-and-cru…
3. Unfortunately, no fragments of the 1821 census survive for the parishes of Drumcullen and Eglish.

There's a transcription error in the Tithe Applotments and Rathure North is recorded (with Rathure South) as "Rathuse" but there are two Walsh men recorded as tenants in 1826: Michael and William: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?…

The same Tithe Applotment also record a John Brown of Cornegark http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587433/00… This is a townland between the villages of Rath and Kilcormac: https://www.townlands.ie/offaly/eglish/drumcullen/drumcullen/cornagark/

A John Browne is also recorded as a tenant in the townland of Lisheen (barony of Eglish, parish of Eglish) in 1827: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587439/00… (Coincidentally, Lisheen borders Cullaun https://www.townlands.ie/offaly/eglish/eglish/birr-rural/lisheen/ and is part of the Birr rural electoral district)

Twenty-eight years later in 1854, the Griffiths' Valuation recorded Honor Walsh as a tenant in Rathure North: http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/z/zoomifyDynamicViewer.php?file…; In Cullaun/Killawn there were two Walsh tenants, Edward (my great-great-grandfather); and Catherine (I haven't confirmed her relationship yet).Edward's daughter (born 1853) was also named Honor. I strongly suspect but cannot confirm (10 years of parish records are missing) that Honor - the tenant at Rathure in 1854 - was my great-great-great grandmother, Edwards father, (Edward married Ann Corcoran 1847 in Kinnitty).

I don't know if you have documented the godparents of Robert and Mary's children but I have often found it useful as a way of coming at a brickwall from different angles:

Margaret Brown 13 Nov 1827 – godparents: John BROWN and Eliza WALSH

Bridget 17 Oct 1830 - godparents: Patt MULLOY (Molloy) Ann WALSH

Joseph 3 Aug 1833 – godparents: William MEEHAN and Ann MULLOY

John 22 July 1834 – godparents John MANNION and Ellen NOLAN

Robert 4 Dec 1836 – godparents: Andy(?) WALSH and Ann NOONAN (possibly NOWLAN) (n.b. 3rd son named after father which is consistent with the commonly used naming pattern)

William 8 April 1839 – godparents: John KERLY and Ann BROWN

Michael 1 Jan 1841 – godparents: Robert BROWN and Alicia WALSH

Patrick 2 April 1843 – godparents John BROWN and Mary BYRNE

For what it's worth, most of these surnames are recognisable as being from Rathure or neghbouring townlands (e.g. Molloy from Clonbeale, Walsh from Rathure and Cullawn).

Finally, if you're looking at marriages, I suggest you look at civil marriages in the 1840s (Offaly as the registration district) especially Esther, daughter of Allen who married John Taylor (1845), witnesses John Gunnille (?) and Betty Read; Margaret daugher of Allen who married David Holmes , witnesses John Taylor and Charles Thomas [??]; and Mary Ann Brown, daughter of Michael, 1846, wittnesses Michael Brown and Ann Read. It may just be another one of those coincidences but the Read/Reid family lived in the Rathure/Cullawn area during the 1800s and early 1900s.

I hope some of that helps - certainly, your information and query has been very helpful for me and has now been added to the "working theory" folder!

Best wishes,

Tara

Hi there,

Just as a follow up to my last message - I had occasion this morning to look in a commemorative booklet for Killyon National School, which would have been the local national school for the Brown children. It contains extracts of the school rolls focusing on infants and new students. In 1891 Mary Brown (no address transcribed) is recorded as a new or infant pupil.

Best wishes,

Tara

Hi,

Just a quick note. My great-great-grandmother was Margaret Brown. The only information I have about her origins (from the England census) was that she was born about 1825 in King's County. I had a look on rootsireland which brought up the information which led me to this page.

I'm not sure if it's the same person, but if it helps, a couple of details about the Margaret Brown who's related to me. She appeared to have migrated to Old Brompton in Kent by the 1840s. It's possible her mother, Mary, went with her. She married James Ashton Benney in the 1840s or early 1850s, and died in 1878.

Maybe this will help someone or someone will be able to provide more information!