Ellen Murphy

FYI. Message referred to a Dublin volunteer but others are free to comment.

Roger

Greg:

I heard back from Shane Wilson who is one of our volunteers in Dublin. Shane has a very informative web site https://www.swilson.info/   which not only covers Dublin resources but resources for all of Ireland. See his reply below.

Roger McDonnell

"Unfortunately I'm not finding anything very useful to add to that 1861 baptism at St. Nicholas of Myra/Francis St., no sign of an RC marriage or baptisms or births of possible siblings in Dublin or elsewhere in Ireland that I can see. Searches focused in Dublin city and county show up numerous references to a Charles (Carolus) Price and Helena/Ellen nee Murphy with a similar trade of Merchant and also Charles Price & Margaret Murphy.  It's possible that George & Ellen married outside Dublin city in a parish without records back that far, and maybe even had earlier children.. I also checked for a possible registry office or civil registered marriage  (i.e. non-RC) but no promising results there either.
 

There are actually two no. 20 Clanbrassil Streets - Upper and Lower - in 1858 20 Lwr. 20 is listed as James Mulligan, slater, and 20 Upr. as Edw. Harrison, diary.

The 1862 street listing mentioned is actually for no. 6 South Circular Road (*), near the junction with Clanbrassil street - this address seems to be his residence, the entry also gives his business address i.e. Nicholas Street. A check of that street listing shows just one Glass & China Warehouse at number 24 - under the name Charles Price.. maybe there is a connection with this Charles Price (merchant) who shows up in various baptism and birth records, could they be brothers or father/son ?

(* for ref - each section of the south Circular Road had a separate numbering system.)

A check of the 1863 Trade Index shows the same Nicholas St. address as George Price, while the street listing in the same edition also shows 24 as Charles Price... a further check of the address in  the 1858 directory shows George Price, Glass & China Warehouse at 24 Nicholas St. in the street listing and also the trades index. Searching further back in directories :
1856 larger premises number 23 & 24, Geo. Price, Glass & China Warehouse
1852 - same listing

1848 numbers 23 & 24 are shown as 'ruins', but next door at 22 is George Price, Glass & China Warehouse ,

1847 same details

the earliest listing I've located is 1834 where a George Price is listed as sharing 25 with a publican, so appears that George was running this business in Dublin city for quite some time before 1861 - or could this George be his father ?

no 24 Nicholas St. was next to the junction between Nicholas Street & Martin's Lane

I would not have considered the name Agnes Price to be that common, but general searches show a number of them around the same time, including one who married in Dublin 1889 with father named Charles a merchant, some with parents named George & Ellen, and even one who married in Massachusetts - although that Agnes was born Montreal.

There is a possible clue to Ellen's family with the name of one of the godparents a 'Luke Murphy', he may be a brother to Ellen - but establishing a  connection to a specific Murphy family would be a long shot.. and likely difficult to confirm  or rule out. As for searching further back there are no real clues as to origin, the surnames dont really help, Murphy very common and widespread, Price has a Welsh origin going back a long time in ireland which MacLysaght notes unhelpfully is 'not specifically associated with any specific locality', the 1850s surname distribution confirms this.
 

I'll keep an eye out and see if I spot anything... all I can suggest at the moment is following up on the later life of this Agnes Price to see if any further clues can be found that might help - e.g. names of any siblings, date & place of her marriage, place of immigration - census returns (neighbours/family etc ?), marriage witnesses, godparents to her children etc

just spotted another item - was considering a mixed marriage, and while browsing spotted a familiar address - 25 Nicholas St., and a Church of Ireland baptism of a George Rusell Price in 1833 to parents George Price & Eliza, father's occupation is shown as Glass and China Merchant. There's also a baptism of a Charles Price two years later to the same parents along with several other siblings - Henry, Ellen etc

This seems to give further evidence to the idea that there were two George's - and that George jnr. was the father of Agnes and took over the business after his father. It may also explain the difficulty locating the marriage of George jnr. & Ellen - maybe she was Catholic ?"

Greg:

Addendum from Shane:

sorry to complicate things further ... I now strongly suspect that father's name George on that RC baptism is a mistake, and it should read Charles, and therefore this child is the Agnes that married Ernest Thornton in Dublin, and died in Dublin. I located a CofI baptism for Agnes in 1861 , it's a transcript only but gives date of birth as 28th April 1861, residence 24 Nicholas St, father's occ. China Merchant - the date of birth is slightly different 28th vs 24th, but the baptism took place quite some time later in September. The address is also different 20 Clanbrassil St. on the RC baptism, and 24 Nicholas St. on the CofI baptism - but the time lag could also explain that...

Roger,
Great thanks for getting back to me and for referring this to Shane Wilson, who posted a trove of helpful information. I don't know how to reply to him directly so if you can pass on my thanks, I'd appreciate that.
I do see the information (thank you) regarding the Price names and homes and places of business.You could very well be right about the fact that George, may indeed be Charles. Among many enlightening items in Shane's finding was the name of Luke Murphy as Baptismal sponsor. There is a Luke Murphy in my clan so I am going to follow up. For all the years of looking at these records, I didn't think to scan my eyes to the other side of that Baptismal register.Again, thanks to Shane for pointing that out.
I am doing this research to assist a newly- found cousin, who just received her Ancestry DNA test results.She is new to genealogy so all of your help is greatly appreciated.
As always, thank you,
Greg Thornton

Roger,
Great thanks for getting back to me and for referring this to Shane Wilson, who posted a trove of helpful information. I don't know how to reply to him directly so if you can pass on my thanks, I'd appreciate that.
I do see the information (thank you) regarding the Price names and homes and places of business.You could very well be right about the fact that George, may indeed be Charles. Among many enlightening items in Shane's finding was the name of Luke Murphy as Baptismal sponsor. There is a Luke Murphy in my clan so I am going to follow up. For all the years of looking at these records, I didn't think to scan my eyes to the other side of that Baptismal register.Again, thanks to Shane for pointing that out.
I am doing this research to assist a newly- found cousin, who just received her Ancestry DNA test results.She is new to genealogy so all of your help is greatly appreciated.
As always, thank you,
Greg Thornton

Greg:

I will pass on your thanks to Shane.

Roger

Roger,

Thank you. I realized my latest message repeated itself. I tried to delete the repeat, but was not successful using the "edit" option.

Hope you are staying well.

Greg

RE:Ellen Murphy/Agnes Price

    For Shane Wilson: Confirming your thought about Agnes Price's father, who was married to Ellen Murphy.

Name of Charles Price listed as father in the Marriage record:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10734/5913673.pdf

Thanks for all of your help as I continue to trace this down.

Greg Thornton