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General question regarding marriage certificate info

I have a Mary Acheson who married in Tyrone (see attached) that says her father is Samuel Acheson from Kinkit.  Would this mean the father is alive and is living in kinkit at the time of the marriage, or would it say where he was born?  I am dna related to this group, and am trying to figure out which Samuel Acheson this is out of the so many that were in Tyrone!   There are some theories that he is the sam that went to australia in 1855, but that would mean he left his daughter at age 1 in Ireland.  What would be the protocol for listing the father's info?

Here's the transcript:

Mary Acheson married William Robinson at Crew Bridge Church, Drumclamph, County Tyrone in Dec 1873 Name: Mary Acheson Date of Registration: 1873 Registration district: Castlederg, Ireland Volume: 17 Page Number: 29 FHL Film Number: 101252 Records on Page: Name William Robinson Mary Acheson Robert Forbes Isabella Gormley

  Drumclamph, County Tyrone

 

Bonniej

Wednesday 17th June 2020, 03:32PM

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Message Board Replies

  • Bonniej,

    The residences on an Irish marriage certificate are where the couple were living at the time of the marriage. It is not where they were born (though they might have been - but a person’s birthplace is not recorded on Irish marriage certificates). The fathers might also live at those addresses but again that’s not recorded. You cannot assume that the fathers were alive. They could be dead. Occasionally Ministers and priests put “deceased” against a father’s name but mostly they didn’t bother.

    In this particular case there is a Samuel Acheson listed in Kinkit in Griffiths Valuation, so that looks likely to be your family. In 1858 he had plot 2 which was a 31 acre farm. A Robert Acheson was living in a labourers cottage on the farm so likely to be a relation.

    The Valuation revision records show that farm remaining in Samuel’s name till 1876 when it changes to Thomas Atcheson. That suggests Samuel had died. There’s a death for a Samuel Atcheson regd in Strabane on 19.7.1875 aged 88. That might be him. You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

    https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

    You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

    Thomas’s name remains as tenant of the farm till around 1909 when he is replaced by Thomas Keys. However Thomas isn’t in the 1901 census, so what happened to him is a bit unclear.

    The Robert Atcheson in the cottage died in 1883 aged 70. Here’s his death certificate:

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retur...

    Here’s the death of another Samuel Atchison of Kinkit born c 1842, in 1890. He’ll be related to the family but it’s not immediately clear how:

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retur...

    This looks like his widow:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Altaclady/Kinkit...

    Daughter Marys’ birth certificate tells me her mother was Sarah Ann Loughlin:

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_return...

    Family in 1911:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Attaclady/Kinkit...

    Marriage for one of Robert Acheson’s daughters in 1873:

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_ret...

    A Samuel Atcheson of Kinkit married Mary Ann Todd in 1853:

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_ret...

    They could be the parents of the Mary Acheson who married Wm Robinson. You would likely need to search Urney Church of Ireland baptism records to confirm that. They start in 1813. There’s a copy in PRONI in Belfast.

    Elwyn

    Wednesday 17th June 2020, 06:00PM
  • Hi Elwyn, I just wrote a long reply and it seems to have disappeared!.. Sorry for the delayed response, I didn't know that you had answered.  I hope you are well during these crazy times!

    Anyway, my Mary was born in 1855, father Samuel, and emigrated to Australia after marrying William Robinson Dec 5 1873, and emigrated in 1874 - listed as 19 years old, so that's how I got the 1855 birth date. However, I have been unable to locate a birth for this girl anywhere.  

    So she has left Ireland before the Mary - daughter to Sarah Loughlin that you mention above - is born. 

    I have all of the Sam's in my tree that are in your list above, and none of them work out for various reasons.  Since they all named their kids the same things, it is so difficult!

    Samuel that married Mary Todd left for Australia in 1855, the same year my Mary was born - I am not sure that he would leave his baby behind?  Do you think that is a real possibility? 

    Sam that was born 1840 I think would be too young to be the Dad.  I think I have the same Sam in my tree - possibly married twice, Sarah Loughlin would be his second wife, but only 15 when they married. 

    Well, that's it - I was kind of grasping at straws trying to determine if the father was alive, or from Kinkit, so I really appreciate your help in trying to solve this.  I do have a dna match that has this Mary in her tree and she is stuck there.  So I do know she's wrapped up in our Acheson line somehow!

    Bonnie

     

    Bonniej

    Tuesday 23rd June 2020, 07:51PM
  • Bonnie,

    There seems to be a problem with this site at present whereby not all replies are being notified to those who have posted messages. You probably need to check periodically to see if a reply has appeared.

    Regarding Mary’s birth in 1855, that was well before the start of birth registration in Ireland (1864) so you won’t find a birth certificate for her. You might find her baptism, if the records still exist. Kinkit is in Urney parish and I initially assumed she would be baptised in Urney Church of Ireland. However I see she married in Drumclamph Church of Ireland. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church. If that’s where she was baptised then the bad news is their early records were lost in the 1922 fire and they have nothing before 1877 now.

    With Church of Ireland records, at present only a small percentage are on-line. Most are not, and you need to go to PRONI or certain other repositories to search them. So Urney’s records do exist and are in PRONI but if Drumclamph was where she was baptised, the records are lost.

    You ask whether the Samuel who married Mary Todd was likely to have emigrated leaving his baby behind. I would say it was unlikely if Mary was still alive but if she had died, and he was a widower, then it is quite possible. A widower wouldn’t have looked after a baby in those days. He’d have got a sister or sister in law to look after it. That would then have left him free to emigrate.

    Elwyn

    Wednesday 24th June 2020, 12:40AM
  • Thanks Elwyn,

    as always, you are the BEST!

    Bonniej

    Wednesday 24th June 2020, 11:53AM