Help with Diamonds in County Derry

I looked at the Scottish records for John Diamond & Catherine’s children born in Carluke. I see Bridget in 1853, John in 1854, another Bridget in 1856 (16th April), James in 1857 and another John in 1859.  So it looks as though the first Bridget and John both died and the names were re-used. That was very common. I don’t see Jane’s birth at all. Have you found it? I ask because if it was in 1855 you might be lucky. In the year 1855 only, Scottish birth records noted where the parents were born plus their dates of birth. 

Diamond and Scullion are both very common surnames around Bellaghy and the parish of Ballyscullion. Indeed there are hundreds of them there, making your search that bit harder.

There are a number of RC parishes in that area. Ballyscullion’s records start in 1844; Maghera 1841; Magherafelt 1834 & Ardtrea 1832. So none of the likely parishes has any records for the years you need (ie 1830 and earlier). That will make tracing them very difficult.

Where and when did John Diamond senior and his wife Sarah died? Have you found death certificates for them?

Elwyn

Thanks for your help in tracing the John and Catherine Diamond in Carluke. This is what I have on the family from Carluke. Catherine and John show up in the 1851 census living about two miles from each other in the Carluke area. Catherine is a servant and John is a laborer.

I have their marriage record that shows they were married on 20 June 1853 at St. Athanasius in Carluke. As I understand Scottish records at that time did not record their parents names. I do have Jane's 's birth record or perhaps it's a baptismal record - that shows she was born in 4 Dec. 1854 - unfortunately just before the state recorded their parent's places of birth. 

I don't have the death certificates or a record for John and Sarah. I've used ancestry to search for those records and looked on some Scottish sites with no luck. 

Catherine's parents came to Youngstown Ohio and I have their death dates, but not much more information. William Dagon and his wife, Jean or Jane, died before Ohio had formal death certificates that stated their place of birth and their parents names. That said I'm going to try to find any parish records. Unfortunately the parish that they attended in Youngstown closed nearly 50 years ago.

One other question - do you think that the Dagon family also came from County Derry. What I've noticed that ancestors in my mother's and father's families tended to marry someone from their own county even when they arrived in America. Perhaps the Diamonds and Dagons left Ireland at the same time for Scotland.

Finally, there is a spelling problem with the name Dagon. In some cases it is recorded as Dagan, Deegon, Deegons, Dagans. Some family members spelled it Dagan and Dagon even in America. Does the Dagon name sound like a name common to County Derry?

One interesting fact about the Dagon family is Robert Dagon - one of Catherine's younger brothers - volunteered to serve in the Union Army during our Civil War. In America, it's something special to claim a relative who fought against slavery.

Any thoughts you have for finding death certificates or anything else is appreciated. 

Again thanks

Slan go foill

Mike 

Mike,

Dagan is pretty well unknown in Ireland. I’d say it was Deegan, which is fairly common in some parts of the country but not in Co Derry.  The name is mostly associated with the Irish Midlands. You can see where it was prevalent in the mid 1850s using this link:

https://www.johngrenham.com/findasurname.php?surname=deegan

Variations in spelling are very common especially when someone moved to a new country or district. Most were barely literate and spelling was often down to the whim of the person recording the information. You will have noticed it with Dimond/Diamond too. (Looking at the 1901 Irish census there were 167 Dimond and 809 Diamond. So you found both even in Ireland).

I agree with you that, overseas, folk often married people from the same area in Ireland.  People wrote home, whether from Scotland or the US, to describe the conditions and this led to others migrating and so groups of people from the same area clustered together. Hundreds of thousands of Irish people went to Scotland to work in the 1800s. (You may have noticed that from the Scottish censuses. Half the people on that 1841 census page were born in Ireland). But in this particular case, I doubt the Dagon/Deegan family were from Co Derry. So my opinion is that John Diamond/Dimond met Catherine in Scotland. Perhaps they both attended the same church? 

So John Diamond senior and his wife Sarah disappear after the 1841 census, is that what you have concluded? If they died in Scotland before 1855 there’s probably no record. Death registration only started on 1.1.1855. Prior to that, some RC churches kept burial records but not many. It’s very patchy and I don’t see a record for either of them.

In the 1841 census (only) people's ages for 15 and over were rounded down to the nearest 5 years. So though John is shown as 40, he could have been 40 – 44, and likewise Sarah 45 – 49. Patrick & John aged 15 could be 15 to 19.  I read daughter Bridget’s age as 4 in the 1841 census, not 11.  If so, that tells you that the family had arrived in Scotland within the previous 4 years.

The apparent number of John Diamonds in the whole of Co Derry in the 1831 census is 37, plus 14 John Dimond. So a total 51. However if you look carefully you’ll find most entries are duplicated. So there’s actually only half that number. But that said I see no reliable way of determining which might be your John. You could try and analyse the families of about the right size (which I calculate to be 3 males and 1 female in 1831) but you have no way of knowing whether your fmaily might have had parents living with them or children who later died etc. So it’s a bit of a guess.

I see that John senior was a labourer in Scotland. So he was likely the same in Ireland. They tended to move about a bit in Ireland to follow the available work, and can be notoriously difficult to trace.  I think you are in the right area looking around Ballyscullion but narrowing it beyond that, in the absence of baptism records is going to be challenging. If you agree that Bridget was 4 in 1841 ie born c 1836/7, then Magherafelt and Ardtrea do have baptism records for those years. You could search them.  But Ballyscullion & Maghera don’t. RC records are on-line on the nli site:  

https://www.nli.ie/en/family-history-introduction.aspx

Elwun

Thanks for all the help. Will keep looking. 

Regards

Mike