Help with Latin translation in marriage entry

My name is Jennifer Jean and Jane has asked me if I can be of any help to you in your recent investigation:-

I have had a better look at this now as your copy was a little distorted but I notice that almost the same wording is on other marriage details within the register so I have taken the liberty of asking a friend who studie latin and I hope that she will manage the English. Meantime did you notice that the bridegrrom's mother is not shown although the Bride's mother is; there may then also be a death registered in that same book

I will come back to you when my pal has looked at the clearer image

Hello Jennifer Jean. Thank you so much for the reply and the help. Yes, the same wording was used pretty much the decade around that entry, which is how I was able to make out some of it. But it is unlike entries I have seen in other registers. According to the archdiocese history site, the parish priest at the time was John O Donovan, and the curate was James Quaid, who I think was the one making this entry. The only other names I could make out where what I assumed were the fathers - Patrick O'Brien and what looked like Patrick Riedy, though I had thought Ellen's father was Owen. What do you make out as the bride's mother? Have you come across deaths listed in the registers? 've only seen baptims and marriges, but would love to find mentions of death as well.

William and Ellen were living in the Townland of Ballynabearna, Ardagh at the time and this is where they had at least 5 children, Patrick being their first 14 months after this marriage. The bapstims are in the Ardagh Parish registry. William is listed in the marriage entry as being from Ardagh, as you can see. The Griffith's Valuation shows a Patrick O'Brien and Owen Riedy living in Ballynabearna, which is why had assumed Owen was her father. I'm thinking they met as neighbors or it was an arranged marriage?

I looks as if Monagea Church isn't far from Ballynabearna, Ardagh as we travel now by car, but it seems it would have been a bit out of their way in 1846. Any thoughts as to why they would have been married there?

Again, thanks to you and your pal for the help.

Jim O'Brien, Seattle, WA, USA

I was writing this before I read this new message from you  so you might as well have the details so far. However I need to look a lot further into your latest message as there is quite a distance between Monagea and Ardagh. There are Reidy's still in Monagea and Broadford - which to my way of thinking would be far more suitable to a union. However it could have been a cousin perhaps or the need to have a new partner for some reason. Please give me time to revalue the information and maybe find a family member along the line.

This was my reply in the first instant:- I am waiting for a friend to confirm her knowledge but meantime you might like to read the following which you probably already know. As soon as I hear anything different I will let you know.

A bishop’s dispensation was normally required for consanguineous marriages. "The priests were supposed to record all relationships of the fourth degree or closer" A dispensation was necessary if a marriage was requested during a Holy period, sometimes although rare – if a partner was of another faith or had not been baptised.  Sometimes if the partner came from another Parish and banns had not been applied for three occasions. Hoc – hac latin was a common language used by people if they did not know the correct latin, a word was ‘made-up’ for the purpose of completing the record and this was particular to the church until quite recently. Perhaps the person who married the couple was a curate and not a priest.

The words “hac de cura” appear in other marriages on those pages and appear to be part of the standard wording used. Cura means care; hac is an adverb meaning “in this place” & de means from. I have a notion that it means that their marriage in this place is acceptable to the RC church.  The word Cura could simply be a translation for “acceptable in this Parish” and transcribed in place of the townland. This was and still is a very large rural area, which is made up of numerous small hamlets that probably just took the name of a local person or family. Similar language is transcribed on many other marriage records that I have looked at from around the time. Testabus means witnessed (as in the English word testify). You might investigate the internet for Catholic Dispensations and another site which advises that you should always take a further look – the link is: https://www.irishfamilyhistorycentre.com/article/always-look-twice

Hello Jim this is Jennifer here again from IrelandXo and I hope with news that will help you with your further research on the O'Brien family

William O’Brien of Ardagh & Ellena Ready of this parish (huiuscura) dispensation obtained from the reading of banns in this case. Witnesses Patrick Ready & Patrick O’Brien, the same (meaning there were many more there sometimes they write et Multi Alii meaning many more (witnesses.)

So Ellen was married in her own parish, this is a very strong tradition.   If they were related you would see the word Consanguine and a number 1st very rare usually 3rd or 4th .

These are records for William O’Brien and Ellen/ Hellena Ready in Ardagh Baptismal Register.

Ardagh Baptismal Register 1845 - 1869

Page no    Date                        Fr                         Baby                                     Dad                                 Mum

21      4/4/1852        Rev D Leahy              Gulielmum        m       Gulielmo  O'Brien         Hellina  Riedy    Patritio O'Brien      Catherina Grogan         

26      6/2/1854        Rev 'd Jacabus Hogan   Miriam           f         Gulielmo  O'Brien         Ellina   Ready    Josephus Kennedy  Maria Shea   Ballnabeara                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

3       24/2/1856                                              Brigidam         f        Gulielmo  O'Brien        Ellina   Ready    Gulielmus Ready    Margarita Kennelly Ballinaberna

38     12/12/1857                                           Johannam       f      Gulielmo  O'Brien           Ellina   Reidy     Gulielmus  Riedy     Catherina Grogan 

46             26/2/1860          R Liston               Joseph            m     Gulielmo  O'Brien          Ellina Reidy        Joannes Kennedy     Bridgida Kennedy  
66             27/9/1864         Rev'd J Reeves    Ellenam          f        Gulielmii  O'Brien           Ellena  Riedy      Patricius O'Brien       Maria Kennedy   Ballinaberna    There is a good deal written and known about the O'Brien families of Ardagh and the surrounding area plus Ardagh in it's own right has a fascinating history. Perhaps you and / or your family might look forward to a trip sometime in the near future; we would be delighted to take you around.

Meantime Good Luck with your family history and do keep yourselves safe and well

Jennifer Jean     

Hello Jennifer. This is fantastic! Thank you so very much for this information and the additional baptisms. You found some that I had missed. Thier first born on May 29, 1847 was Patrick, so they would have been able to kill two birds with one stone and name him after both fathers. Seems William went to Ellen's parish to marry, and they returned to Ballnabearna after, so I wonder if it was arranged. William's father, Patrick is on the Tithe Applotment Books for Ballynabearna in 1826, and also present in the Griffiths Valuation for Ballynabearna, where I'm sure William and family were living as the size of the lot would have supported a large family. By 1901 there are no O'Brien's in Ballynabearna, which would be consistent with their emigration.

I beleive Patrick was my 4x great grandfather, and the William born to William and Ellen in 1852 is my great-great grandfather. He arrived in the Rhondda Valley, Glamorgan, Wales about 1870.

A couple of additional questions for you. What is the most likely burial location for someone living in Ballynabearna at that time?

Also, the site of Patrick's house on the GV still has buildings according to modern sattelite maps (see attached). I would love a photograph of that place now, and curious to know if any buildings are still from that era. I would gladly pay for petrol, lunch, or whatever if someone nearby was interested in helping.

Again, thank you all so much for the help. Jim

Hello Jim, no need for money for anything but I would appreciate if you could give me the week as I have a fully diary: however I do promise that I will get back to you as soon as is possible

Have a good week and stay safe

Jennifer Jean

Here we think we might have a relative for you; this is from:- John P O'Sullivan, he is chairman of St Kierans Heritage Association aTeagasc advisor and farmer. and was sent to my pal Mary

The message is as follows:- They could be relatives of mine

The arrow is pointing to a field that was in Kennedys farm but the buildings just ½ an inch north is where I live.  My great great great grandfather Jeremiah Doody (Father of James Doody Postmaster Ardagh PO) from Balliniska, Castlemahon married  Mary O’Brien from Ballinabearna.

https://historicgraves.com/mahoonagh-beg/li-mhbg-0126/grave

O’Briens sold farm in Ballinabearna or transferred tenancy to someone (Maybe Nolan) and then my grandfather John O’Sullivan bought it around 1900.

The present house was built in the 1940’s and they moved it a bit forward from where the old house was  The only old building that there now is the old cow house with cobble stones

Tourist?  No problem as long as they have obeyed all the Covid guidelines and don’t behave like spoilt politicians and judges.

Send them on my E Mail jposit@gmail.com

Regards

John  I wish you every ounce of Good Luck and leave you now to contact John if you so wish. Have a super day

Jennifer Jean