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Hi all,

I have been trying to locate the house my grandfather lived in on the historic maps. Using Griffiths, the area was narrowed down, but the house location could not be found on the map because there were several with the same number, within the outlined area.

Then this week I recieved an email from Ireland XO regarding their maps. I worked with it for awhile, and again, can't determine which house was my grandfathers on the historic map. There are numbers on the map, but no way to associate the numbers to anything/anyone. 

Is it possible to determine the house location? Based on the Griffiths description, it seemed like you could, but I couldn't figure it out because of multiple "5a" locations for example.

In 1902 my grandfather lived in House 8 in Aghamore Lower.

In 1911 he was in House 2 in Farmullagh. 

Is there a way to find these buildings on the historic map?

Thank you fso much for any help!

Debbie

Debbie MF

Wednesday 11th May 2022, 07:36PM

Message Board Replies

  • In general, in the Irish censuses, those numbers simply indicate the order in which the enumerator visited. They aren't addresses.

    Patricia

    Wednesday 11th May 2022, 07:58PM
  • There are several versions of the Griffith's maps - the version many people use are the colour maps on the AskAbout Ireland website, these date from well after the Primary Valuation so the site references do not always match up. The system does have older maps for most areas, there are in black and white and much more difficult to read - to switch to these look for dropdown labeled 'Map Version' to the top right of the map display. FindMyPast also has contemporary Griffith#s maps, although they can be a little difficult to navigate as they are not seamlessly joined together like the AskAboutIreland maps.

    As mentioned by Patricia the numbers on the census are enumerator references which could change, and not addresses or street numbers - although in some cities and larger town they did match these up to street numbers , e.g. in Dublin city.

    The best way to establish a location of a property is usually to start with Griffith's Primary Valuation and then work forward using the Revaluation Books (aka Canceled Land Books) - these are held by the Valuation Office in Dublin City, the Canceled Land Books are not currently available online. They also have a collection of updated maps to go with the revaluations. The revaluation details for many counties have been scanned and are available on computers in the office - the details often cover well into the 1900s.

    Do you have probable match for your relation on Griffith's - i.e. name, townland, parish, county etc ?

     

    Shane Wilson, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 12th May 2022, 09:15AM
  • I've attached two examples from the Griffith maps showing Aghamore Lower townland, Columbkille civil parish, County Longford - the townland name is highlighted, on the colour maps the property boundaries are shown in red and the townland boundaries as shown in bolder Red lines, site 5A is highlighted.

    Also attached is the same area and townland on the older black & white maps, dated c1854 - in this case it appears that site 5A is the same shape and location.

     

    Shane Wilson, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 12th May 2022, 11:04AM

    Attached Files

  • Thank you all very much for your help. That is the first I have heard of the house number not being an address. Thank you for that helpful information.

    I have just learned of the Revaluation Books, unfortunately I am in the US, so they would not be available to me.

    My townlands are mostly Farmullagh, Leggah and Corglass areas, Co Longford.  Almost all of my confirmed records are from Dromard Parish/ Killoe Parish.

    I have attached 2 Griffiths pages giving coordinates, for what I believe to be my family, that I have not been able to find on the map. I have been surmising that these coordinates are locations of the houses? Or is that incorrect also? These are for the Mahon's on the pages. I have another for a GG uncle in Corneddan also, that I am not finding the Griffiths page at the moment. 

    The John Mahon in Corglass numbers for A R P were 5. 2 .20.  Would that refer to Area, Road, Parcel? And are they location coordinates?

    Thank you again for your help!

    Debbie

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Debbie MF

    Friday 13th May 2022, 07:15PM

    Attached Files

  • The key starting point for that Griffith's page is Townland which is Corglass, the civil parish Killoe and the county Longford

    I see just one John Mahon on this page, 3rd line down, the important reference for him is the first column - which is 6 c, this column is headed 'No. and letters of reference on Map' and is what we need to look for on the associated map. John Mahon at site 6c is leasing just a House from the 'Reps.' or 'Representatives of John O'Brien' - his property is part of a legal process probably relating to Probate. There's no land associated with John Mahon's holding, since there's just a house and just a small land valuation, i.e. under the house, along with a valuation of the house.

    If you scroll further down this page you can see a summation of the total land area - i.e. 750 acres, which agrees with the entry on the townland index - this area check can be useful where there are several townland of the same name. This portion of the Valuation is dated November 1854.

    The colour map for this Corglass townland on AskAboutIreland shows site 6 to the north of the townland with three subplots a b c  -  see the attached colour map extract, I've also attached the older black and white map dated closer to the actual valuation which although not as clear shows the same references.

    As far as I can see the buildings at sub-sites a and b remained, but there's no sign of the buildings at 6c on the later 1800s OS maps.

    A R P is the area of the land - Acres, Roods & Perches  4 Roods = 1 Statute/Imperial acre, 40 Perches = 1 Rood

    I've also attached an overview map of the full townland and a Google Streetview from a road running through Corglass townland - this is from approximately site 6, close to the 6b site, looking north towards where 6c would have been located.

     

    Shane Wilson, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Saturday 14th May 2022, 01:01PM

    Attached Files

  • Shanew, 

    Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate your taking the time.

    Oh boy. I guess I was way off!  LOL.   I have never heard of Roods & Perches. So differernt from the US. Learning as I go!

    Thank you again!

    Debbie

    Debbie MF

    Saturday 14th May 2022, 03:25PM