John Mackey, Antrim and his five children

Sworddancer,

Scotch church was often used in Ireland to describe secession Presbyterian congregations.  Presbyterianism was established in Scotland and brought to Ireland by Scots settlers in the 1600s. The links with Scotland always remained strong. All Presbyterian Ministers in Ireland were educated there until the Presbyterian Theological College was established in Belfast around 1845. Many of the Ministers were themselves Scots.  There were several schisms in the Presbyterian church but one led to the creation of Unitarian/Non Subscribing Presbyterians and another to the United Free Presbyterian church. They often got their Ministers from Scotland (often from the Free Church of Scotland) and were known as Scotch churches, presumably to distinguish them from the mainstream Presbyterian church.

The former United Free Presbyterian Church in Cullybackey is still known to older folk in the town as the Scotch Kirk.

Secession congregations were not great at keeping records, and it’s common to find there aren’t any that have survived. No easy way round that. There's a graveyard attached to the former Non Subscribing Presbyterian Church in Antrim. I am due to look in it for somebody else. I'll keep an eye out for any Mackey graves there.

Hi Elwyn,

Many thanks for looking, hopefully something might turn up on John or his son Samuel.

I had previously discounted the "Minister in the Scotch Church" as an occupation for John because in the Belfast Newsletter announcements he was referred to as Mr rather than Rev, I thought perhaps William was just a mariner trying to accentuate his respectability. Did Ministers in the Presbyterian churches ever not use the Reverend title? Is there a comprehensive list of Presbyterian Ministers I can check?

Thanks again

Sworddancer,

Yes there is pretty comprehensive list of Presbyterian Ministers (of all the various sub-denominations) at the Presbyterian Historical Society in Belfast. E-mail Valerie Adams there and she'll do a look up for you. If he was a Presbyterian Minister he will have obtained his degree in Scotland either at Aberdeen, St Andrews, Edinburgh or Glasgow universities. They keep some bio on past students (even students in the 1700s) and can sometimes provide a little more information.

Hi Elwyn,

Valerie replied very quicky and was helpful regarding my search for John Mackey a minister in the Scotch Church but unfortunately her records do not have a John Mackey as a Presbyterian Minister in Ireland. 

I did come across a Rev John Mackey (with spelling variations) at Fahan Presbyterian Church conducting marriages between 1843 and 1853 but I am fairly sure that my John Mackey had died by 1852 so almost certainly not him.

Just wanted to let you know and to thankyou for your help.

Thanks again

Sworddancer,

Disappointing result. It occurred to me that "Minister in the Scotch Church" could also mean he was a Presbyterian Minister in Scotland or even in England. There is an on-line source you can search for Presbyterian Ministers in Scotland called FASTI. It gives details of their lives and careers. You asked whether Ministers were ever referred to as Mr. Not commonly, in my experience.

I still plan to look at the gravestones in the old Unitarian graveyard in Antrim sometime in the next couple of weeks. I'll let you know if I find any Mackey graves there.

I visited the Unitarian churchyard in Antrim today. It’s acquired a new name. It’s now the Alexander Irvine Park cemetery. (Alexander Irvine was a local lad made good who became a Minister and writer in the US).

There was only 1 legible Mackey gravestone. It was for Samuel Mackey who died 2nd August 1792 aged 36 and his wife Mary who died 26.7.1807 aged 45. The grave is in a row of 4 or 5 all with a shared fence round them suggesting they may be connected in some way. There were only 2 legible stones in the fenced off area both were for the Robinson family. One of whom was a Colonel Robinson who died in Dominica (if I have read it correctly).

As with any graveyard there were plenty of graves with just stumps where a stone had once been, many illegible and some face down. Plus there’s plenty of land with no gravestones at all. So clearly there’s scope for others to be buried there but they no longer have any readable stone.

Hi Elwyn,

Thanks for looking for me, not sure how or if there is any connection but I will keep this on file for future reference.

I will forward the picture of the gravestone to my son also a Samuel Mackey.

ATB

Peter

Peter,

I have been told there is a tree on Ancestry that links the Mackey & Robinson families. You might want to look for that.

Hi Elwyn,

I have seen the trees on Ancestry and have found Samuel Mackey (1756 to 1792) on two trees.  It is possible that my John Mackey is the son of Samuel. Toby Farmer's Mackey Family Tree shows Samuel's son John Mackey marrying a Martha Robinson and the birth dates for this John would be about right. Interestingly though both Toby and I have done DNA tests and the results show no match. Of course it could be a false negative as we are 5th cousins or alternatively one of our trees maybe wrong or there may be an NPE. 

Looking at the McDowell Family Tree It is possible that my John Mackey is a nephew of Samuel and that John Mcdowell and I share a common ancestor in the Samuel's father John Mackey who died in 1802 . John McDowell has not yet done a DNA test so we don't know if there is a match or not.

My next step has to be to check the Baptismal records for John Mackey's two youngest children at the First (Millrow) Presbyterian Church. After that I am struggling to come up with anything concrete.

Again thanks for your help

Peter

Hi Elwyn,

It is a while since we corresponded and hope all is well with you.

My wife and I are planning to visit County Antrim early in July for tourism but also to see if I can make any progress on my family tree and to visit some of the places where my ancestors lived.

Toby Farmer kindly sent me the attached copy of a tree transcribed onto a piece of wallpaper that he created back in the 1960s from information in an old family bible. It is not as good as having the bible itself but is to my mind one step up from the "Ancestry" tree. You will see that it includes a candidate for the Samuel Mackey (born 1756) of the gravestone you posted earlier in the thread and also links to the Robinsons of Dominica.

I have shared DNA with several people who are descended from people on the tree so am reasonably confident that my ancestors are on the tree somewhere. My working hypothesis is that my John Mackey is the John Mackey who married Martha Robinson but it could equally another John Mackey from somewhere else on the tree.

Which brings me back to whether there are birth/baptismal records for any of John Mackey's  five children, and whether there is any record for the marriage of John Mackey to Martha Robinson? I am also interested to find out what happened to Samuel Mackey (born 2nd Nov 1812) in case this provides any further clues. I was thinking I should visit the General Register Office on Northern Ireland but would be grateful if you could suggest any other avenues to investigate.

Best Regards

Peter 

Peter,

We didn’t start recording births and deaths in Ireland till 1864. 1845 for Protestant marriages, 1864 for RC marriages. So GRONI will have nothing for folk born or died in the 1700s or early 1800s. If you think Samuel was alive post 1864 and in Ireland, you can check the deaths on irishgenealogy.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp 

There will likely be quite a lot but knowing he was born in 1812 will enable you to eliminate many of them.

Prior to statutory registration we rely on church baptism records.  You should certainly try Millrow's records in PRONI. They go back to the 1600s and are some of the oldest surviving records in this part of Ireland. However if the family attended the non subscribing church, where the graveyard is, then they have no records. If they ever kept them they are long lost.  So you might be struggling to find much on this family if they didn’t attend Millrow.

Incidentally Millrow Presbyterian is no longer in Millrow, and is generally known now as Antrim 1^st Presbyterian.

One thing that I noticed is that Alexander Mackey’s family appear to be Church of Ireland. I think this is his widow and daughters in 1901 and I note they were Episcopalian (ie Church of Ireland, in Ireland).  That being so you might want to check Antrim town Church of Ireland baptism and marriage records when you are at PRONI. Just in case.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Pottinger/Knock_Road/1220867/

I noticed that Mary Jane Mackey married a man from Glasgow and that she died there. Scottish death certificates are much better than Irish (and English) ones as they contain details of both parents. Or normally they do. In this case I was intrigued to find that when his wife died in 1875, Peter Aitken did not know his wife’s parents names. Intriguing. I had hoped it would confirm that the mother was Martha Robinson.

If you want into the Unitarian graveyard in Antrim you need to contact the Council Offices a few days in advance to get the keys (or to get someone to leave it on the latch for you. It’s a springlock padlock so they may unlock it, and you just lock it when you leave).

Hi Elwyn,

Thankyou for all your work and insights.

I think in addition to GRONI we will focus on Antrim on our visit and it is interesting your comments about the Church of Ireland. Alexander Mackey (born 1817) the son of John Mackey, married Alithea Heron the daughter of the Presbyterian minister at Ballyclare so I assumed they would all be Presbyterian but I see that John Mackey's sister Jane is buried at All Saints Antrim, and has a prominent memorial there with her husband James McGee.

It is disappointing that Mary Jane's Scottish death certificate does not include her parents' Christian names or mothers maiden name.  I am pretty sure that this is the right Mary Jane, though I notice that Peter Aitken has gone from Jeweler to Traveler on the census return to Gas Engineer on her death certificate and that others think he died in an asylum in 1881.

I note that Mary Jane's father's occupation is shown as Portioner. Might there have been a Will?

Thanks Again

Peter

Peter,

As a married woman in 1875, Mary Jane’s property was regarded as her husband’s. Consequently she probably had no need of a will, so long as he was alive. That did change with the married woman’s property Act but in 1875 I think she didn’t benefit. I did check the Wills and Testaments site on Scotlandspeople but didn’t find her there, so I'd say she didn’t leave a will.

It was quite common for Presbyterians to be buried in Church of Ireland graveyards. COI graveyards were, and still are, open to all denominations and so you’ll often find Catholics, Methodists, Baptists etc buried there.  That reflected the fact that sometimes their churches didn’t have graveyards and also that, in some cases, families had traditional burial plots in COI graveyards. No significance can really be drawn from burial in COI graveyard.  The graveyards were open to all and folk buried there could be almost any denomination. 

Hi Elwyn,

Thanks for looking. I have checked the online records at PRONI to see if I could find where John Mackey inherited but cannot see that there are any likely wills for John Mackey himself (died before 1852), his father Samuel Mackey of the gravestone (died 1792) or John Mackey's Grandfather (died 1803). All in Antrim.

I see there is a John Mackey on the 1775 dissenters petition for Antrim but acknowledge the name John Mackey is not uncommon.

Thanks Again

Peter

Hi Elwyn,

Once again thanks for all your help.

Joanna and I have made arrangements to visit the Alexander Irvine Cemetery on the 4th July and hope to visit PRONI on the 5th before heading up to the Giants Causeway for a few days. I am more than happy to buy lunch if you happen to be around.

Best Regards

Peter

Peter,

Yes I should be free on 4th July. I could meet you at the cemetery. What time do you plan to be there?

Hi Elwyn,

that is very good of you and it will be good to meet up, we plan to be there by 9.30am

ATB

Peter

Peter,

OK. See you there around 09.30. There's a car park across the road from the cemetery.

What an enjoyable and interesting visit we had to Northern Ireland. We spent a day looking around cemeteries with Elwyn, a day at PRONI when the weather was truly atrocious, had a fascinating walk "Peace Walls and Bridges" around Belfast before heading up to the Causeway Coast for a few days tourism. Oh and we visited the Titanic Museum before flying back to Manchester.

From the information gathered on the trip we confirmed John Mackey's father being the Samuel Mackey in the Alexander Irvine Cemetery and that John was married to Martha Robinson! Before our visit this was a hypothesis based on a family tree created by Toby Farmer in the 1960's from a old bible that has subsequently gone missing.

The Robinson memorials in the Alexander  Irvine Cemetery are for three of Martha Robison's brothers William, Alex and Thomas and her Uncle John all for of whom left wills. The great thing about Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Robinson's will is that he left £500 to his niece Isabella Mackey the eldest of the siblings and a spinster.

I attach a visit report which includes a transcription of the Robinson memorials, a copy of the Toby farmer tree which he wrote out on a piece of wallpaper and thankfully kept all these years .

Thanks again to Elwyn and all at Irelandxo

and here is a copy of Thomas Robinson's Indian will leaving the £500 to Isabella Mackey