Maps before Griffiths?

There?s no sign of your family in the tithes or Griffiths valuation for Mocklershill. That suggests to me that they were in a small cottage attached to one of the farms on the townland. (And of course they may have moved from time to time as they would generally be on short tenure rental arrangements). Finding which farm they lived on can be extremely difficult. There?s no standard reference book and most maps wouldn?t name the tenants of such properties. They might just refer to the fact that there were a few agricultural labourers cottages. The superior landlord?s records would simply record who the main farm was rented to. Who that farmer chose to sublet to was of no interest to the superior landlord and is unlikely to feature in any estate records that might survive from that period. Could be tricky to trace.

Thanks for your information. I agree, Edmond could have sublet a cottage and be very difficult to find. Since he had a trade (Carpenter and wheelwright), I had hoped for some listing of him on some document someplace. I assume Mocklershill is so small that it had no businesses, just farms. I guess I'll just poke around, and stop at the nearest church.  His wife Mary Duggan may have been from Derryluskan, Rathcool, where I found a promising lead. If so, would the nearest church be in Fethard, where they were married?  

Thanks again , Barry

Barry,

Mocklershill is 417 acres of agricultural land. In 1830, in the tithe applotment records, there were 18 farms there:

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

In 1850, in Griffiths Valuation, there were 13 listed. There were also some plots of land (ie no farmhouse) and so that probably roughly matches the 1830 information.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

By the 1901 census there were just 8 households there:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Magorban/Mocklershill/

During the 1800s, most farms had a few cottages on them that were sublet to agricultural workers who generally paid their rent by an agreed number of days work on the farm, after which they were free to please themselves. So a tradesman could stay there and either give the requisite number of days work, or if he had a family, they might provide the labour instead. Most of these small cottages are gone now. They were never very substantial, and if they didn?t collapse with age, subsequent owners have tended to clear them away to put in new barns or car parking etc.

You could try making local enquiries to see if anyone has ever heard of your family, but my general experience is that most people can only go back 3 generations in Ireland and so they would have no idea about tenants who might have lived there in the mid 1800s. But you can try.

Derryluskan is in Rathcool civil parish. I think the RC parish probably has a different name but am not sure what it is.  Can?t help you with churches either as I don?t live locally. Griffiths records a John & a William as head of household in Derryluskan in 1850. William had a farmhouse, outbuildings and 63 acres of land (making it a substantial farm by Irish standards). John had a house and a one sixth share of 11 acres of land (subsistence farming).

Elwyn

Elwyn- thanks for directing me to the sites. You actually did lead me to a very interesting clue in the 1827 Tithes. I found a Thomas Donnell who leased two properties, total 22 acres, and he obviously could only live on one of them.  My ancestor Edmond Carew had two baptismal sponsors named Donnell, Mary and Richard. They also had a Mahony sponsor a baptism, and there's a Mahoney next preoperty over. I feel it's possible Edmond may have rented Thomas Donnell's other property.

I then tried the Griffiths, and there were Jeremiah Donnell on Map Ref 11 and Mary Donnell Map ref 12. However, they should be nearly equal lots according to the page, but #12 is easily 10 times the size of #11. Confusing, Ack, these maps!

In any event, it put me onto the general area and landscape of their home, and I know what to take pictures of now when I get there. Appreciate the help, Thank you.