McEnany family in Co Louth

Hello Billy, I was looking over the previous posts involving your good self, and found a birth for a Patt & Peter McEneany in Louth plus 3 siblings all born between 1830 and 1840, these were the search parameters, one small glitch, one mother is Mary and the other Rose Murphy, however I note that the witness on one of the births is a Rose Murphy and sense a mistake either original or in transcription, the address is Louth but one says Stonehouse and I see it has both an Upper an Lower, it is near Carrickmacross in Monaghan but in Louth, you can see the location here https://www.townlands.ie/louth/ and search the registers for the parish given the dates https://registers.nli.ie/ however Roots Ireland appear to have baptisms predating the dates shown on this site. The parish appears to be Louth. 

Also the document you attached appears to be blank to me anyway or is that the sum total of your current knowledge (Joking) 

Three of the birth are here 

Also Thomas 1834 and Rose 1840

Name:  Peter Mcenany     

 Date of Baptism:  11-Aug-1839

Address:              Knockdillon         Parish/District:  LOUTH

Gender:               Unknown            County Co. Louth

Denomination:  Roman Catholic

Father: Patt Mcenany    Mother:    Rose Murphy                                    

Informant 1:       Peter Mcivor

Informant 2:       Nancy Mcenany

---------

Name:  Patt Mceneany    

 Date of Baptism:             09-Aug-1834

Address:    Parish/District:  LOUTH

Gender:    Unknown            County Co. Louth

Denomination:  Roman Catholic

Father: Patt Mceneany Mother: Mary Murphy

Informant 1:       Patt Murphy

Informant 2:       Mary White

---------------------------------------------

Name:  James Mceneany     

 Date of Baptism:   13-May-1838

Address:  Stonetown         Parish/District:  LOUTH

Gender:    Unknown            County Co. Louth

Denomination:  Roman Catholic

Father: Patt Mceneany Mother:      Mary Murphy                                   

Informant 1:       Mathew Hoey

Informant 2:       Rose Murphy

Regards

Pat

Here's another attempt to post info :)

Hi Pat, 

Many thanks for your post. Now that hopefully you can read my census and marriage records you'll see the problem that Peter is consistently recorded as older than Patrick and mostly down as born 1834-6. What you you think?

Cheers,

Bill

Hi Billy, a quick return to the births, while Louth is a county and a parish, there is also a small village of Louth in what I assume is Louth parish.

The information you provided is very detailed but as the marriages are in England the only information to help is the fathers name which helps but can only indicate the father on the birth but will show up any birth with that father, prior to 1864 RC deaths are hard to come by in the records. As the marriages took place in England also the spouses could be from anywhere in Ireland, it is also likely that groups migrated together from an area, Melia is a name found in Louth in a small way on the CLAHS Website, as are the others, Duffy is in Meath but it is also in other counties.

John Grehan website show surname distribution in Ireland but is only indictative, it is also subscription but allows a a few free searches. https://www.johngrenham.com/surnames/ this is based on Griffiths Valuation I think. 

I think you are in a bind, using the locations given in the census and the birth year deduced you can only search for possible births but with no actual address you can only estimate likilihoods, for instance the Melia name is primarily found in Mayo. 

There is a list of professional genealogists on the National Library of Ireland website who may be able to assist, my understanding they will do an initial assessment with costings to ensure no unexpectedly large bills. Not all baptism records show up on the NLI registers and the Roots site appears to have some not shown on other sites.

Regards

Pat

Hi Billy I missed your actual query on the ages, with consistency of age I would be inclined to believe it as such, many times I see ages vary but a few years but if consistent you have to assume they knew what they were talking about, registration in England was brought in about 1837 but 1864 in Ireland so when the Pensions act was brought in in the early 1900s at 65 those in England were already recorded while those in Ireland had to show they were born at a time to qualify and age changes in the census from 1901 to 1911 are often attributed to this qualifyig age, so there is a reason to age yourself if Irish, being consistent to me shows they are probably telling the truth. 

That however puts you back to square one, is there the possibility the father married twice otherwise we may be looking in the wrong place or at a parish with out records though most in Louth are in place at that time.

Regards

Pat

Hi Pat,

Relevant info:

Peter and Patrick are both recorded as being from Dundalk, which may or may not be consistent with Louth parish.

Peter's wife Elizabeth nee Fitzsimons is recorded as being from Co Meath

Patrick's wife Bess (/Eliz, Ellen) nee Duffy is recorded as being from Co Cavan.

I think it's entirely possible that the brothers had the same father but a differnt mother if the first one died. However, the age match-up still seems to be a problem. Maybe this possibility helps to spread the net a bit wider?

Regards,

Bill 

Hi Billy, I have been off site for a few days, pursueing other hobbies, however it is really difficult to know where to go at this juncture, I had a look at Roots Ireland and there are about 8 Pat etc McEnaney marriages from 1830 to 1850 and two from 1820 to 1830 that I located and it is impossible to say if it is the same Pat McEneany in any marriage, there were two around the Dundalk area, spouse a Carroll and a Lennan possibly Lennon plus others in nearby counties.

I understand you can view these by joining Roots Ireland for say a day, if I do them it uses up my volunteer allowance, either way no matter what you see you cannot link to your Patrick, the only baptisms we found were the ones previous. If they were of marriage age when they left Ireland it is posssible they needed proof that they were not previously married and they may have applied for a baptismal certificate and the priest may have recorded this in the register if you went to Registers NLI site and looked but again a long shot. 

It is possible that if you located a relative that then that side of the family may have some more family stories or information as those that migrated to the US for instance recorded information on parents on death certs. Church records for Louth at that time were ok except for the parish of Darver  I think but you are operating at the outer reaches of current records and it is highly unlikely there are surviving wills if they ever did leave one or land records.

You may have to settle for being from Louth however if you put your information in the Chronicles section you may get some feedback.

Sorry I cannot do any better,

Good Luck, 

Pat