McLorinan and McDowell

John,

It was fairly common, especially amongst Presbyterian families, to use a mother’s maiden name as a middle name, but in my experience it could also be someone the family respected eg the local Minister or schoolteacher.  You would likely need to try and find Henry (born 1846)’s parents marriage, or his baptism to see what his mother’s maiden name was. 

I see from the censuses that Henry wasn’t born in Belfast. He came from somewhere in Co Antrim. If you know where, you could search the local church records for a marriage or baptism. They are probably not on-line and it could involve a trip to PRONI.

Though the family was Methodist in 1911 & 1901, a marriage in the 1830s would likely be a different denomination.  The earliest Methodist marriages in Ireland date to around 1836. Prior to that Methodists used the Church of Ireland. But since tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, that might be another denomination altogether.  (There aren’t many McLorinans in the 1901 census, but all of them were RC).

Elwyn,

Thanks for your response.  I haven't so far been able to find out much about my great-grandfather Henry McLorinan McDowell. All I know about his father (from Henry"s marriage certificate, which was in the Agnes Street Methodist Chapel in Belfast in 1871) is that his name was John, and he was a sewed muslin agent. I'm grateful for your interest.

John

Elwyn,

A bit of progress.  I stumbled on a death certificate for a Henry McLorinan who died in Antrim (I assume the town) in 1875, aged 86, in the presence of ?n McDowell (the copy has a smudge).  I hope that's John McDowell, and I hope it's Henry's son-in-law, father of my great-grandfather Henry McLorinan McDowell, who on this hypothesis will have been named, according to the custom you confirmed, after his mother's father.  On Family Search, in the infuriating way that happens there, the death certificate was attached as a "memory" to a Henry McLorinan said to have been born in Carmavey, Killead, Co Antrim; that's how I stumbled on it. I sent an email to Killead Presbyterian Church, and to my admiring astonishment had an immediate response from the minister, bless him, transcribing several McLorinan records. Evidently the Henry McLorinan who was my candidate for being an ancestor of mine was dead by the time his son, also Henry, was married in 1845, so he wasn't the Henry who died in the presence of, I hope, my great-great-grandfather in 1875. I suppose eliminating possibilities is progress too. And the Killead McLorinans confirm that not all McLorinans were Catholic.

Next I have to work on finding church records in Antrim. I'm in the US, and not in touch with any cousins in NI, of whom I'm sure there are some, so I'm stuck with what's online and email inquiries.

John

John,

I had a look at that death certificate. I can confirm that it took place in Antrim town (Henry lived in Castle St). I note his occupation was  “farmer” rather than a “sewed muslin agent.” There’s damage to the page which makes the informant’s forename hard to read. However that version is a copy. You can look at the original, which will hopefully be easier to read, on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option: 

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate there. 

I checked to see if Henry left a will but there’s none on the PRONI site. His wife had pre-deceased him. I checked the deaths 1864 – 1875 regd in Antrim town and there are several women of about the right age who might be his wife but they are all pay to view so it’d be expensive going through them all. And his wife might have died before 1864 in which case there’s no death certificate to find.

The McDowell informant lived in High, St Antrim (which is just round the corner from Castle St). I don’t see any McDowells in High St Antrim in the 1901 census. Elusive families.

I note that Henry was reportedly from Carmavy. Though most of the pre 1901 Irish censuses have been destroyed, a few fragments remain, including part of the parish of Killead. Here’s some McLorinans in Carmavy then:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1851/Antrim/Lower_Massereen…

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1851/Antrim/Lower_Massereene/Killead/Carmavy_Grange_of/25/

They had gone by the 1901 census.

Thanks again, Elwyn.

It's John McDowell, my great-great-grandfather, who is described (on the marriage certificate of his son Henry McLorinan) as a sewed muslin agent. I haven't found any other documentation for him beyond that marriage certificate: no death certificate, no census record (I assume he was dead by 1901), no will.

A wife for Henry McLorinan of Castle Street Antrim would be of interest to me; if he is father-in-law to "my" John McDowell she would be a great-great-great-grandmother of mine. But my most immediate concern is a maiden name for John McDowell's wife, who I hope was a McLorinan, a daughter of the Henry who died in Antrim in 1875.

I think my communication from the minister of Killead Presbyterian Church eliminates the Carmavy McLorinans from any identification with the Henry who died in Antrim in 1875. There seem to have been three called Henry. The first was said on Family Search to have been born about 1795, with no documentation beyond the fact that someone (no telling who) had attached that death certificate to him. But according to the minister he was dead by the time of the marriage of his son, also Henry, to Margaret Adgey in 1845. The third was born to the second Henry and his wife Margaret in 1846. None of the three fits the dates of the Henry who died in 1875, the one who I hope was an ancestor of mine.

John

Elwyn,

A bit more progress. John McDowell of High Street Antrim, rate collector, widower, died 29 November 1886, aged 69. (A bit hard to find on irishgenealogy.ie because he was indexed as John MDowell.) Elizabeth McDowell of High Street Antrim, wife of John McDowell a tax collector, died 23 September 1884, aged 72. This is plausibly the same John McDowell of High Street who witnessed the death of Henry McLorinan on Castle Street on 12 January 1875, and his wife, perhaps born Elizabeth McLorinan. A problem about identifying this John McDowell with the father of Henry McLorinan McDowell is his profession, which was sewed muslin agent in 1871. Perhaps the decline in the sewed muslin trade had finally become too much for him to sustain that employment? And we know H. McL. McD. was born in Co Antrim, possibly Antrim town.

The Belfast Newsletter for 30 November 1886 has a death notice for John McDowell of 45 High Street Antrim (the building seems to be still there, per Google Street View), which says his remains are to be removed for interment the next day at the Friends' Burying-ground, Moylena. I've tried to find the burying-ground on the internet, so far in vain, though I found that there was/is a village (?) called Moylena, site of a beetling mill; the name seems to be preserved in the name of Moylena Road, which is the address of the Antrim town cemetery.

I've posted on another board asking if anyone knows anything about the burial ground.

John

M'Dowell was the original spelling of surnames that nowadays are spelled Mc or Mac. The M' version was in common use till the 1980s at least. So M'Dowell, MDowell, McDowell etc are all the same. Pronounced Madole, by the way, and sometimes spelled Madole too.

I live in the Antrim area and do not know of any burying ground at Moylena. I searched on the UHF site which lists graveyards in Ulster and none is shown there. Friends means it was a Quaker burial ground. Mostly used by Quakers but I have seen non Quakers buried in a Quaker burial ground in Co Antrim at Grange of Ballyscullion. (Descendants of former Quakers). In the 1800s, Quakers generally didn't use gravestones. (They thought it a vanity). However they do keep good birth, marriage and burial records. The Provincial HQ is in LIsburn, Co. Antrim. You could contact them and ask a) if they know of Moylena graveyard, and b) if they have a record of this man being a member of their church. I don't think there was a Quaker Meeting House in or near Antrim town in the 1800s. There was one at one time (1700s/early 1800s) but I think it merged with Grange of Ballyscullion. Possibly Lisburn was then the nearest. But the HQ in Lisburn will know.

Thanks again, Elwyn.

My grandfather wrote the name with an apostrophe. My father wrote the "c", but raised above the line. But I was surprised that irishgenealogy.ie didn't give results for the variants when I searched McDowell; someone else alerted me to the death certificate for John McDowell of High Street Antrim.

I think I have "found" the graveyard (so far as that makes sense from several thousand miles away) since my previous post. In a different context I came across a reference to the Seneschal of the Manor of Moylinny, and I thought that looked plausibly like a different version of the Irish name. It turns out that Moylinny is a townland in Antrim town; surely likely the same as Moylena where the beetling mill was. And a search for a Quaker graveyard in Moylinny turned up a result on genuki.org.uk: 

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/ANT/Antrim/QuakersGraveyardCemetery

It shows the site S of Belfast Road, close to Nursery Park.

I found a couple of photos (from 2007) on flickr.com:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21067190@N00/775794563/in/photostream/

One shows a handsome stone gateway with an iron gate, through which some gravestones are visible. The other is taken from close to the gate, showing gravestones and an area enclosed with low iron fencing.

I also found a document (from 2000) about the heritage of Antrim town, in which the gateway and walling of a Quaker graveyard at Belfast Road, Antrim appear on a list of listed buildings:

https://www.nienvironmentlink.org/cmsfiles/Antrim-Heritage-Audit-v2.pdf

From what you say, the gravestones visible in the pictures are likely to be of non-Quakers. But I don't know that John was a Quaker; the only evidence of that, so far, is the death notice in the Belfast Newsletter. I've contacted the cemeteries department of the government of Antrim and Newtownabbey asking if they maintain that graveyard, and suggesting that it might be a good idea to have some organization like Find a Grave record the gravestones. And I will contact the Provincial HQ in Lisburn as you suggest.

John

P.S. I copied and pasted the web addresses, expecting them to look like links, and they don't. I hope they work for you. (I'm assuming that as a resident in the area unfamiliar with this graveyard you will be interested in it independently of helping me.)

I mistyped; the heritage document is from 2020.

I see that the addresses appear as links once what I wrote is posted. But the Flickr one doesn't all appear. I will try to fix it. Or perhaps you can find the pics by googling Quaker graveyard Antrim.

John

John,

That’s a new graveyard on me, I must say. But it does indeed exist. It’s got a 10 foot wall round it and the gate is locked. The local Council should have the key so I’ll try and get in in the next week or so. I was able to look through the gate and it’s very overgrown. No-one seems to have done any grass cutting or maintenance for some time. Not a huge number of gravestones so shouldn’t take long to explore.

Photo of the entrance inscription attached.

You mention getting the transcriptions on-line. Well yes in an ideal world that’s what’s needed but there are thousands of wee graveyards like this across Ireland A bit of a mammoth task.

Elwyn,

Thanks again. The photo of the gate that I had seen has what looks like the bottom of a plaque, but not the plaque itself. It's interesting how old the graveyard is; I have the impression that the heritage audit dates the structures (gate and wall) more recently (1844? I haven't checked). But it makes sense that the graveyard itself would date back to when there were first Quakers in Antrim.

I emailed the town council back when I last posted here, and I had a response from the cemeteries department saying they don't know who is in charge of the graveyard (which they knew about); they recommended that I contact a local Quaker meeting house, and suggested I consult quakers-in-ireland.ie to find one. You had said that there hasn't been a Quaker meeting in Antrim for quite a while. It didn't sound very likely that the council has a key, or even knows who might have one.

Some of the genealogy websites give quakers-in-ireland.org as the website of the Religious Society of Friends in Ulster. But that site has been down every time I've tried for a couple of weeks. I've finally given it up, and yesterday I sent off a query to the Archives Committee, at their Lisburn address, by mail. We'll see if anything comes of it. If they aren't keeping up their website, they probably aren't picking up or answering their mail.

I really appreciate your continued interest.

John

Elwyn,

My contact at the cemeteries department in the town government confirms that they don't have a key, and they don't know who does. She says that burial records for the graveyard are on microfilm at PRONI, but that isn't any help to me; I will go on hoping for a response from Lisburn.

A different matter: The Belfast and Province of Ulster Directory 1870 has, under Traders &c in Antrim (town), J. M'Dowell, sewed muslin agent, on Main Street; and Miss M'Dowell, stationer, also on Main Street. In later directories he no longer figures (perhaps because he is no longer a sewed muslin agent, and tax/rate collector doesn't count as a trade?); she goes on figuring as stationer, and later stationer and newsagent, but on High Street. I first thought her store must have moved, and if he's the same person who lived on High Street by 1875 he must have moved also, but then I saw that there are no High Street addresses in the 1870 directory, and lots in the later directories, so I'm thinking the street name was changed; does that sound right? I'm wondering if the stationer is Mary McDowell, daughter, who was present at his death in 1888. In one of the series of directories there is Miss M'Dowell, stationer, and also a Miss J. M'Dowell, sewing agent, also on High Street: another daughter? Sorry, you don't need all this information, but I'm wondering if you know about the change of street name.

John

John,

I am surprised the Council don’t have the key. They look after several other small cemeteries eg at the old Unitarian church in Antrim. It too has a fence round it and a locked gate. It hasn't been used as a church for 100 years but the graveyard is occasionally mown and the council keep the key. I have borrowed it a couple of times.  I am waiting for the Council to ring me back. If they do have the key after all, I’ll let you know.

Some years ago I did research on the Quaker Meeting House at Grange of Ballyscullion (about 10 miles from Antrim). Their early minutes mention the Antrim meeting but that stops in the 1800s. Grange itself was defunct by 1900. The Quaker graveyard at Grange has no Quaker gravestones at all. However the council has put up a noticeboard with a list of names of those they think are buried there.  There are about 4 gravestones in the graveyard but they are all for folk who were Church of Ireland descendants of Quakers.

Most of those Meeting Houses were fairly small gatherings. Perhaps 10 or 12 families. Emigration and other factors reduced their membership over the years and it obviously wouldn’t take too much to come to a point where they weren’t viable.

There’s an e-mail address on this link for the Friends Meeting House in Lisburn. You might want to try it. Lisburn is both a local Meeting House plus the Provincial HQ.

https://quakers-in-ireland.ie/quakermeetings/ulster/lisburn/

Each Meeting House kept a set of records, but every so often they sent a copy to the Provincial HQ.  The local branch copies have often been lost (with the closure of the branch) but the HQ copies survive. They have been copied and are in PRONI but Covid restrictions at PRONI make them very difficult to access. There are dozens of microfilms, and you need to know precisely which film you want and order it 3 weeks in advance. Then it has to be quarantined after you have viewed it. You’ll get the idea. Whereas if you can get someone in Lisburn to look up their copy, it may be quicker.  There is also Olive Goodbody’s book on Irish Quakers which lists most members. Plus Findmypast have some Irish Quaker records on their site.

Regarding the whereabouts of Main St in Antrim, judging by the Revaluation Books, the name was changed to Market Square around 1867. Market Square is the area around the old Court House (now a theatre) and the old police station, now a solicitors office. Some other original buildings remain but there has been some redevelopment with a modern shopping centre on part of the site. I have a attached  a photo of Market Square from the 1930s. The Court House and the Ulster Bank (building at right hand side of the picture) look much the same today. The buildings in the background have all been demolished though. There are buildings out of view on the left hand side some of which date to the 1800s. 

Elwyn,

Thanks again.

I emailed that address at the Lisburn meeting a while back, asking if they knew how I could contact the Archives, and I haven't had any response. I hope it doesn't mean that the whole operation, local meeting, Archives, and all, has gone completely dormant in the pandemic.

About Main Street, I was hoping it was what's now, and already by 1875, called High Street. There are a lot of businesses on Main Street in the 1870 directory, and I don't think Miss M'Dowell's stationery store is the only one that reappears on High Street in the later one.

John

I got a call from the Council this morning to say they have no idea who holds the key to the Quaker Cemetery. There’s certainly no Quaker Meeting House in Antrim any more so let’s hope that the Lisburn HQ knows who the keyholder is. The padlock looks as though it might still work. It didn’t look to be rusted solid but equally it doesn’t look oiled or well used and I saw no signs anyone has been in there recently.  It’s all very grassy and weedy. The 1 locked gate is the only way in. You would need a 12 foot ladder to get over the 10 foot wall. I am too old for that game!

High St was (and still is) an extension of Main St. The two together are probably only 600 yards long though. Then it merges with Fountain St.

Thanks again.

That's too bad about the key. I picture an elderly keyholder (maybe a member of the Reford family?) dying (some time ago, since the graveyard hasn't been maintained for a while), and none of the survivors knowing what that key was for.

For what it's worth, on a closer look I don't think the inscription of which the bottom, not the words, can be seen on the photograph from 2007 is the same one that figures in your photograph; the bottom of the plaque looks different (older in the 2007 photograph). I wonder if the Reford family decided to assert that it's their burial place, and maybe to take charge of it, comparatively recently.

I will wait, without much hope, for a response from Lisburn. Meanwhile, thank you for your efforts.

John

Elwyn,

The email I've copied and attached (I hope) just reached me out of the blue. I think the sender must have found my post, on a different message board here, about the burial ground. If his information is 20 years old, maybe it's no longer current, but it may be worth trying the lady he names as the key holder.

I wondered whether Thomas Parker McDowell might be related to the John McDowell who was buried there in 1886. I've done a brief dive into what's available on the free LDS site, and followed up by finding a marriage certificate from irishgenealogy.ie, and it looks quite plausible, so far, that he was another son of that John McDowell; his father is so named, and described as a commission agent, on the marriage certificate. Intriguing.

John

Elwyn,

On reflection I think Ross Chapman must have been responding to an email I sent to quakers-in-ireland.ie.

I will attach an informative follow-up from him. You had said that non-Quakers might be buried in a Quaker graveyard, and it seems that John's burial wasn't a Quaker burial (though maybe the family had been Quaker at some previous time). Obviously this puts paid to my hope of getting a marriage record from the Archive at Lisburn.

About Thomas Parker McDowell: Henry McLorinan McDowell's daughter Elizabeth married Thomas Henry Parker, who was a son of Alexander Mackey (or Mackay) Parker, both born in Antrim. Alexander Mackey Parker was a witness at the marriage of Henry McLorinan McDowell. I can't find a father for Alexander; I'm guessing it may have been Thomas Parker, and that the Thomas Parker family were friends of the John McDowell family, perhaps through the Methodist church. Perhaps John named a son Thomas Parker McDowell in honour of a family friend, as some time back you suggested was possible as an explanation of the name of Henry McLorinan McDowell. (Or perhaps John's wife Elizabeth was a Parker, not a McLorinan. This sets the cat amongst the pigeons!)

John,

I found Thomas Parker McDowell’s probate abstract on the PRONI wills site:

McDowell Thomas Parker of Firmount Antrim county Antrim retired linen secretary died 30 January 1929 Probate Belfast 23 July to Walter S. Smyth medical practitioner John J. Heatly district inspector R.U.C. Luke Jackson Holmes solicitor and Samuel Johnston McDowell manager. Effects £1665 3s. 6d.

The address is now a VETS practice (Firmount Vets) and is where I get my pets vaccinated. It’s just 150 yards along the Belfast Rd from the Quaker cemetery.

https://www.firmountvets.co.uk

Family look to have been Methodists judging by the 1911 census, but presumably at some time pre 1840 they were Quakers because Ross mentions their residual right to be buried there:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Antrim_Rural/Town_Parks__part_of__Rural/106602/

I note that Thomas was living in Antrim town and that his father was John McDowell, a Commission Agent. (So not too dis-similar to a rate collector). If he was buried in the Quaker graveyard that Thomas was responsible for, I’d suspect that’s going to be his father. But is he your ancestor? That’s the question.

Ross says no McDowells have been buried there since 1871. Obviously the item in the newspaper about John’s burial there in 1886 casts some doubt on that.

Presumably the family was Quaker at some time, otherwise they’d hardly be using and taking care of their graveyard. But by 1911 they were Methodist. Antrim Methodist baptism records start in 1819, marriages in 1836. Most Methodists would have used the Church of Ireland prior to those dates but in this case perhaps the McDowell family were Quakers. I’d be inclined to ask Ross if he can check the old Antrim records for McDowells. The Methodist records are in PRONI. I can look them up if you want but it’ll be August before I can do that.

The phone number for Mrs Thompson doesn’t work. However I’ll call up at the house later in the week to find out if she’s still there.

Elwyn,

Thanks again. I hadn't found (or even looked for) Thomas Parker McDowell's will. There is an entry for him and his family on the 1901 census, but it doesn't come up on the LDS database because his name has been mistranscribed as Thomas Parkin McDonell. It always seemed implausible that Henry McLorinan McD and Mary McD, who witnessed John McD's death, were John McD's only offspring, and it's good to have a candidate for another. I've also been wondering about the John McD, director, who figures as an executor/beneficiary on Henry McLorinan McD's will probate in 1916. (The English version has Joseph McD, director, but I think that must be a mistranscription.) By that time my grandfather John McD, Henry's son, had been settled in South Africa at least since 1906, so he seems unlikely as a director of Henry's company. But maybe a sibling? On the death notice in the Belfast Newsletter John is John McDowell Sen, and I wondered who John McDowell Jun is; maybe my grandfather, but at the time of John Sr's death he was only a little boy, and it seems a bit grand to call him John Jr.

I don't think Ross meant that no McDowells have been buried at Moylinny since 1871. I think the point was that there have been no Quaker burials there since then. Which implies that John McD wasn't a Quaker — though he and his ?son Thomas Parker McD had burial rights there. I asked Ross if that meant that McDowells had been Quakers previously, and he said there aren't any McDowells in the records of the Antrim meeting; it might be only that a McDowell had married a daughter of a Quaker. (I will attach our latest exchange.) I've now asked him if the records of the Antrim meeting include McLorinans (which seems unlikely somehow), or Parkers.

If Mrs Parker turns out to be no more, we'll have to see what Ross suggests. Having had my hopes raised, I would be tempted to suggest getting a bolt cutter and removing the padlock, and then replacing it with a new one, with the key to be kept by the council if they will accept it. (I would happily pay for that.)

As always, I really value your interest and your help.

I meant Mrs. Thompson!

I meant Mrs. Thompson!

Elwyn,

This is probably TMI. I was struck by the name Samuel Johnston McDowell on the will probate abstract you found for Thomas Parker McDowell, and I recalled that in my search for a candidate for the John McDowell on the will probate for Henry McLorinan McDowell, not believing it could be my grandfather in South Africa, I had found a death certificate for a John McDowell who died in Belfast on 26 June 1921, aged 62, with the death witnessed by S. J. McDowell, son. There's a marriage certificate that might fit him: John McDowell Junior married Isabella Vance Johnson on 5 June 1886 at 43 High Street Antrim under Methodist auspices; his father is John McDowell, agent (perhaps the person whose burial, later that year, we are investigating, named as John McDowell Senior in the Belfast Newsletter), hers is Samuel Johnson, grocer. This John McDowell would have been born in 1859 or perhaps 1858 — late in the childbearing years of Elizabeth McDowell (born 1812), but not inconceivable. I wonder if S. J. McDowell is Samuel Johnson McDowell, named after his maternal grandfather, and "Johnson" has been mistranscribed as "Johnston" on the will probate.

I haven't heard back from Ross yet; I'll keep you posted.

John

Elwyn,

The will probate of John McDowell Junior in 1921 locks a lot into place. Probate is granted to:

1. Thomas McDowell of 2 The Lindens, Clintonville Road, linen merchant, nephew. This is a son of Henry McLorinan McDowell. It proves that John McD Junior is indeed a brother of Henry McLorinan McD; they are both sons of John McDowell Senior.

2. Elizabeth McLorinan Napier, married woman, daughter. I think this must be the daughter called Lily or Lillie on the censuses. It's surely near enough certain that John McD Junior named her in honour of his mother, Elizabeth McDowell — we can now confidently say née McLorinan. So John's son Henry McLorinan McD (who is certainly my great-grandfather) can be, as I wanted, named in honour of John's father-in-law.

3. Samuel Johnson McDowell, Malone Road, secretary, son. Surely this is the S. J. McDowell, son, who witnessed the death of his father John McD Junior. Probably the same as Samuel Johnston McDowell on the probate document for Thomas Parker McDowell. The name seems to waver between Johnson and Johnston. Plausibly named in honour of his mother's father, Samuel Johnson or Johnston, grocer (of 43 High Street Antrim).

I may not need the church records!

I had a little success today.  Mrs Thompson is still with us and has the key to the Quaker graveyard. And I got in. The phone number Ross gave you contains a mistake which is why I couldn’t get through. The correct number is 94461070.

There is 1 McDowell gravestone in the yard. It’s on the right hand side as you go in. The inscription reads:

“Loving memory of John McDowell of Antrim born 5th May 1817 died 29th Nov 1886.  Also of his wife  Elizabeth McDowell born 22nd April 1812 and died 23rd December 1884. Also their daughter Jane McL McDowell died 29thAugust 1925 aged 80 years. Also their daughter Mary McDowell died 16th January 1932 aged 80 years.”

Photos attached. In the general view, the grave is in the deep shade in the far corner.

You mention Isabella Vance Johnson in your recent message. There is a Vance grave in the graveyard so presumably that’s the same family.

Johnston & Johnson are completely interchangeable in Ireland. Spelling varied all the time in the 1800s so could well be the same person.

Mrs Thompson has the only key to the graveyard now. Her sister had another but lost it and the Reford family also had one but they have died out and that key is assumed to be lost.

Mrs Thompson’s brother told me the Refords were Quakers at some time in the past. They owned a linen mill in Antrim and also York St mill in Belfast. The McDowell whose probate I sent you (“retired linen secretary”) had been a director of the mills so there was a business connection between the two families.

Mrs Thompson’s brother thinks he may have a plan of the cemetery showing all the graves, so if there are any other McDowells there, we might find out. 

Quakers in 17th century England were noted engineers. There were lots of water powered mills in Lancashire and Yorkshire and Quakers were renowned for their skills in building and maintaining them. Originally used for grinding corn, the skills were later used for water powered linen mills. (Belfast had over 60 at one time earning it the nickname “Linenopolis.”). The nearest Quaker meeting house to Antrim used to be Grange of Ballyscullion in Millquarter. There were several water powered mills there which had been built in the late 1600s and early 1700s by Quaker engineers from England. Presumably the Refords did something similar in Antrim.

Elwyn,

I can't thank you enough for all this! I am immensely grateful for all the trouble you have taken.

Mary McDowell, daughter, is on the death certificate of John McDowell. I'm thinking Jane McL. McDowell is Miss J. M'Dowell, sewing agent, who is mentioned on High Street Antrim, along with Miss M'Dowell, stationer (perhaps Mary?), on one of the Belfast and Ulster Province directories. I think with all the evidence we now have it's fair to assume Jane McL. is Jane McLorinan, and it's overdetermined that her mother is Elizabeth McLorinan, daughter of Henry McLorinan who died in the presence of John McDowell on Castle Street in 1875. Henry McLorinan McD's eldest daughter is Mary Jane, and perhaps that's a nod to his sisters. It's wonderful how everything is falling into place.

I haven't been expecting other McDowell graves there, but who knows? Thomas Parker McD, whose probate you found, died in 1929 (in Antrim town, where as you told me he had been living in what's now your vet's building). I know that Henry McLorinan McD (my great-grandfather) was buried in Belfast.

Ross Chapman mentioned two Vance men along with Thomas Parker McD as members of the committee that took over the running of the graveyard in 1893. I haven't investigated the ancestry of Isabella Vance Johnson/Johnston; you're probably right that she was connected with the family on the gravestone. Maybe her mother was a Vance. If, as Ross said, there were no Quaker burials there after 1881, the people in the Vance grave you photographed are no longer Quakers.

Elwyn,

It's been a while! I've made some small discoveries since we were last in contact, but nothing to compare with the definitive answer to the question I first posted here, reached with your indispensable help. I don't think I could get further back with McDowells and McLorinans without church records.

Something I should have asked you long ago: is it OK with you if I post your photos of John McDowell's grave and the graveyard entry on my tree on Ancestry.com, and on the communal tree on FamilySearch? To credit you, I would need to have so to speak official knowledge of your last name, evidently not used on Ireland Reaching Out — though I think I know it because you, or someone I take to be you, are a presence on other genealogical sites.

John

John,

Yes by all means use the photos as you please. My surname is Soutter.

Thanks again, Elwyn.

I thought you were probably the Elwyn Soutter whose posts I saw sometimes in my occasional browsing on rootschat. I had supposed that the absence of surnames on Ireland Reaching out was website policy, but now that you have confirmed my surmise I see that I could have confirmed it by finding your profile, under your full name, on Ireland Reaching Out itself.

The profile looks very like the kind of thing I have occasionally seen posted by professional genealogists looking for customers. That makes me even more gratefully amazed at your having done, just as a site volunteer, all that you did in the line of inquiry that culminated in locating and photographing my gggf's grave. Thanks for all of it.

John 

Elwyn,

I thought you might be interested, after all this time, in a snippet of information about Firmount, the house in which my great-great-uncle Thomas Parker McDowell died, which is now the site of the veterinary practice where you said you take your pets.  Thomas worked for James Chaine at his linen works in Muckamore.  When Chaine died in 1885, he willed to Thomas a plot of land and £1,000, and Thomas used the money to build the house on the land Chaine had left him.

Thomas's brother John junior also worked for Chaine; he was Chaine's secretary, and for a while after Chaine's death he was secretary to the estate.  I think he was involved with the building of Larne Harbour and the setting up of the ferry between there and Stranraer.  But he didn't get a legacy.

I now know that Thomas was named after the first husband of his mother Elizabeth née McLorinan, the father of Alexander Mackey Parker, who turns out to have been a half-brother of his.

John