meade denis 1805-1865 23 merchants quay dublin

Hi William,

Have forwarded your query. 

I wish you the best of luck with your search.

Genealogy support

cynocconor 

what do you mean by                     have forwarded your query 

where have you forwarded my query

Hi William,

I've forwarded your query to a volunteer in the Dublin area who may be able to help or advise you.

All the best.

thanks 

I have information about John Meade Thomas brother of Thomas Meade. Do you have this already.  Thomas and John also had a sister, Eleanor who married John Fennell in 1790,Joanna wo married Peter Clary of Roscrea and Mary who married John Henry Roan of Roscrea.

John Meade Thomas is my Great Great Great Great Grandfather. He married first Mary Anne Roche and then Mary Ankettle. Catherine Meade, daughter of Mary Roche and John Meade Thomas is my Great Great great Grandmother. She married a Fitzmaurice but I can't find any record of the marriage. However her brother, Major Roche Meade (Deputy-Assistant Adjutant General of Horse Guards in London) left a third of his estate to his only next of kin one of whom was described as Catherine Fitzmaurice, widow.  Catherine and Mr Fitzmaurice had a daughter Mary Agnes who came to Australia in the late 1840s to 1850s. I can't find any connection apart from some old documents in the possession of Mary Agnes relating to the estimate of her Uncle Roche's estate and a few personal possessions including a couple of miniatures of him.

You may already have this information about Denis Meade's family, so my apologies if this information is nothing new.  However, if by any chance you might know where to further research his Uncle John Thomas Meade's family, I would appreciate it.

Cheers

Helen

helen from your message i am trying to work out a chronology-can you provide me with any dates- so i detail the following 

john meade thomas brother of thomas meade

eleanor sister of above

joanna sister of the above

mary sister of the above

mary married john henry roan of roscrea

joanna married  peter clary of roscrea 

1790 eleanor married john fennell 

???? john meade thomas married mary anne roche

???? birth catherine meade your great great grandmother

???? birth major roche meade deputy assistant adjutant general of horse guards in london

???? marraige catherine meade to mr fitzmaurice

???? birth mary agnes daughter of catherine meade to mr fitzmaurice

???? death of major roche meade deputy assistant adjutant general of horse guards in london

???? major roche meade left a third of his estate to his next of kin one of who was described as catherine fitzmaurice widow  

1840s-1850s mary agnes austrailia your great grandmother estimate of her uncles roches estate and a couple of minatiures of him 

John Meade Thomas was the brother of Thomas Meade and a son of Thomas Meade and Eleanor Rochfort.

John Meade son of Thomas Meade married Mary Anne (Roche) in the Parish of St Marys Diocese of Limerickin the Church of St Mary's Limerick, Catholic Church byDean John Creagh PP on 10 September 18\785. Witnesses were Philp Roche and Francis Arthur.

They had two daughters named Catherine. The first died and the second one is my GGG grandmother, Catherine Meade baptised on 26 May 1794 in the same church that her parents were married in Limerick.

Roche Meade, brother of Catherine and son of John and Mary was born on 24 July 1790 in Charleville, County Cork, Ireland. There were two other brothers, Thomas Meade (first born) and Richard Meade who died in Jamaica in 1819.

I haven't been able to find a marriage of Catherine Meade to Henry Fitzmaurice, son of James Fitzmaurice. The evidence I have as to her being Catherine or Kate Fitzmaurice is on some documents that were passed down through the family. (Further explanation later).

The birth of Mary Agnes is about 1830 but no evidence supports this apart from on her death certificate. She died in 1920 and the age of 90 years in Sydney, NSW.

Major Roche Meade, died suddenly and unexpectedly on 16 November 1849 in Middlesex, England. He had been married but both his wife and child died within six months of one another.

I have a copy of the administration of the estate of Roche Meade which was administered jointly by a John Chalmers of London and Stephen Meade, Solicitor of Dublin (half brother of Roche Meade and Catherine Meade. John Meade Thomas married a Mary Ankettle after  Mary Anne Roche Meade his first wife died in 1795). In the estate administration, it is stated that his estate goes to his only next of kin being Catherine (Meade)  Fitzmaurice, widow of Catherine Street, Limerick, Mary-Anne (Meade), widow of Booterstown and his brother by the half blood, Stephen Meade of Dublin.  The estate amount was three thousand pounds. Also in our possession is a copy of an 'Accounts Currently' document to Mrs Kate Fitzmaurice, setting out how her share of her brother's estate had been distributed. Two amounts in the document are sent to Sydney - one at the end of 1849 and the other in April 1850.

Finally, Mary Agnes (Fitzmaurice) married a Mark Powell in 1862. She had two daughters in 1856 and 1861 to a 'Mr Grant' and then married Mark Powell and had another two daughters to him. On her children's birth certificates she puts her place of birth as being Ireland and nothing else.  She says her maiden name is Williamson on the first child's birth certificate but once she marries Mark Powell, she states her maiden name as Fitzmaurice.

Her second daughter - Selina Mary Violet Grant (my Great Grandmother) had a rather interesting marriage notice inserted in the Sydney Morning Herald in 1883.  It says that Selina is the granddaughter of the late Henry James Fitzmaurice, Captain of HM 3rd Buffs (can't find any evidence of this) and great granddaughter of the late James Fitzmaurice of Ballybunion House, Kerry, Ireland and great grandniece of the late Lord Henry petty-Fitzmaurice, Marquise of Lansdown and Earl of Kerry. It goes on to say that she is the great granddaughter of the late John Thomas Meade Esq., (John Meade Thomas) of Limerick, and Belle View, Castle Connell and grandniece of the late Major Roche Meade , R.H.A.R.G.O and Horse Guards and grandniece of the late Richard Harold Meade Esq, Belle View, Castle Connell, Ireland.

So this is what I know. This is what I don't know

1. Birth date of Mary Agnes and any registration of her birth of baptism to Catherine Meade and Henry Fitzmaurice.

2. Have not been able to find a marriage notice of Catherine Meade to a Mr Fitzmaurice, although there are a couple of pieces of evidence that show that she became a Mrs Fitzmaurice and was then widowed.

3. Due to the various names given by Mary Agnes and the fact that she does not appear to have married Mr Grant, I can't find any record of when she came to Australia. Her first child was born in 1856 in Sydney.

I noticed that in your Denis Meade list, there is a Catherine Meade born 1794 in Dublin her parents being Thomas Meade (brother of John Meade Thomas) and Ellen is her mother.This would have made the two Catherines cousins.

helen from your second update i record 

???? thomas meade married eleanor rochfort

???? birth thomas meade

???? birth john meade

???? birth eleanor meade married john fennell 1790 

???? birth joanna meade married peter clary of roscrea 

???? birth mary meade married john henry roan of roscrea

1785 september 18th john meade thomas married mary anne roche saint marys diocese of limerick church of saint marys limerick catholic church by dean john creagh pp witness philip roche and frances arthur   (john thomas meade esq of limerick and belleview castleconnell)  

???? birth thomas meade first born to mary anne roche meade and john meade thomas

???? birth richard meade born to mary anne roche meade and john meade thomas he died in jamacia 1819

1790 wedding eleanor meade married john fennell 

1790 july 24th birth charleville county cork ireland major roche meade deputy assistant adjutant general of horseguards in london to mary anne roche meade and john meade thomas   r h a r g o and horseguard middlesex

1794 may 26th birth catherine meade your ggg grandmother to mary anne roche meade and john meade thomas 

1794 may baptized limerick catherine meade your ggg grandmother mary anne roche and john meade thomas 

1795 death mary anne roche meade died 

???? 2nd wedding john meade thomas married mary annkettle 

???? birth stephen meade to john meade thomas and mary annkettle also half brother of roche meade (b1790) and catherine meade (b1794)  

???? wedding catherine meade (1794) marraige to mr henry fitzmaurice captain of hm 3rd buffs son of james fitzmaurice         (henry james fitzmaurice captain of hm 3rd buffs died before 1883)   ( james fitzmaurice of ballybunion house kerry ireland died before 1883) (henry fitmaurice related to lord henry petty fitzmaurice marquiss of lansdowne and earl of kerry) 

1819 death richard meade  (b1785-1790??) died in jamacia 

1830 birth mary agnes daughter of catherine meade (kate fitzmaurice) born ireland and mr fitzmaurice

???? deaths major roche meade his wife and daughter died within six months of one another (possibly middlesex)

1849 november 16th death middlesex of major roche meade deputy assistant adjutant general of horse guards in london r h a r g o and horseguard    major roche meade left a third of his estate to his next of kin one of who was described as catherine fitzmaurice widow catherine street limerick   mary anne meade widow of booterstown and stephen meade sols of dublin   will was administered by john chalmers of london and stephen meade solicitor of dublin  estate amount £3,000;00;00 

1849 end of year estate amount sent to sydney

1850 april estate amount sent to sydney 

1850s mary agnes fitzmaurice austrailia your great great grandmother holds estimate of her uncle major roche estate and a couple of minatures of him 

???? mary agnes fitmaurice married a mr grant 

1856 birth sydney of first daughter to mary agnes fitzmaurice williamson grant born in ireland to catherine meade and henry fitzmaurice 

1861 birth of selina mary violet grant second daughter mary agnes fitzmaurice grant your great grandmother

1862 mary agnes fitzmaurice married a mark powell

???? birth of first daughter to mary agnes fitzmaurice and mark powell

???? birth of second daughter to mary agnes fitzmaurice and mark powell

1883 selina  granddaughter of the late henry james fitmaurice captain of hm 3rd buffs                                                        great granddaughter of the late james fitzmaurice of ballybunion house kerry ireland                                                          great grand niece of the late lord henry petty fitzmaurice marquiss of lansdowne and earl of kerry                                 great granddaughter of the late john thomas meade esq of limerick and belleview castleconnell                                 grand niece of late major roche meade r h a r g o and horseguard                                                                                            grand niece of late richard harold meade esq belleview castleconnell ireland 

1920 death sydney nsw of mary agnes fitmaurice williamson grant powell died aged 90

helen from your second update and from persual of various messages on the internet  i record 

???? thomas meade married eleanor rochfort

???? birth thomas harold meade eldest son 

???? birth john meade thomas brother ----helen you write that you have his baptism certificate do you have a date and parents name and address   

???? birth eleanor meade married john fennell 1790 

???? birth joanna meade married peter clary of roscrea 

???? birth mary meade married john henry roan of roscrea

???? birth mary roche ---helen you write that you have her baptism certificate do you have a date and parents name and address 

1785 september 9th marraige john meade fitzthomas rutland street limerick --meade john thomas last saturday mr john meade thomas linen draper to miss roche niece to philip roche john esq a very amicable and accomplished young lady with a large fortune 

1785 september 18th marraige john meade thomas wedding mary anne roche saint marys diocese of limerick church of saint marys limerick catholic church by dean john creagh pp witness philip roche and frances arthur   (john thomas meade esq of limerick and belleview castleconnell)----helen you write that you have the marraige certificate could you confirm parents name and address plus witnesses and also you mention mary anne nee harold who married john meade could you confirm is mary anne maiden name harold or roche 

1787 birth thomas meade first born to mary anne roche meade and john meade thomas

1788 richard lucas limerick directory meade thomas & john linen drapers mary street 

???? birth richard meade born to mary anne roche meade and john meade thomas he died in jamacia 1819

1790 wedding eleanor meade married john fennell 

1790 july 24th birth charleville county cork ireland major roche meade deputy assistant adjutant general of horseguards in london to mary anne roche meade and john meade thomas   r h a r g o and horseguard middlesex helen can you confirm the documentary evidence you have for the above birth in  charleville county cork-are there any other baptisms recorded 

1794 may 26th birth catherine meade your ggg grandmother to mary anne roche meade and john meade thomas------helen can you confirm what is your documentary evidence for the above birth  

1794 may baptized limerick roman catholic church catherine meade your ggg grandmother mary anne roche and john meade thomas ----helen what other information is given on the baptism certificate 

1795 july 5th death mary anne roche meade died left her husband with five young children ----helen you have thomas richard major roche meade and catherine who is the fifth child and what is their name 

1797 december 9th 2nd marraige john meade thomas wedding mary ankettle 

1799 birth stephen meade to john meade thomas and mary annkettle also half brother of roche meade (b1790) and catherine meade (b1794)

1801 birth george meade son of john meade thomas and mary ankettle 

1801 death mary ankettle meade died

1806 february 2nd death notice george meade rutland street aged 5 son of john meade thomas esq  

1806 thomas meade eldest son aged 19         stephen meade eldest son aged 7 

1819 death richard meade  (b1785-1790??) died in jamacia

1830 birth ireland county clare mary agnes mother mary kathryn meade not kathleen (possibly kate fitzmaurice-or-catherine meade) born ireland and father mr henry james fitzmaurice army officer supposedly a captain of hn 3rd buffs according to documentary evidence 1920 death certificate died aged 90 --------helen you state no register of birth no birth date  

1835 birth mary agnes from wedding certificate 1853

1836 november 26th birth agnes williamson saint marys church of ireland limerick father robert williamson employed in the surv mother catherine no surname if this is catherine meade aged 44 years old 

1838/39 marraige catherine meade (b1794) wedding to mr henry fitzmaurice captain of hm 3rd royal buffs son of james fitzmaurice  family of county clare        (henry james fitzmaurice captain of hm 3rd buffs died before 1883)   ( james fitzmaurice of ballybunion house kerry ireland died before 1883) (henry fitmaurice related to lord henry petty fitzmaurice marquiss of lansdowne and earl of kerry)  your great great great grandparents  possible other names kathryn kate meade and henry james fitzmaurice   documentary evidence birth certificate 1870 of lucille eugene florence helen you state no documentary evidence of marraige certificate discovered   

1843 mary agnes fitmaurice arrived austrailia aged 13 years your great great grandmother documentary evidence death certificate 1920 been in the colonies new south wales 77 years    

1846 marraige mary agnes wedding to mr grant in sydney austrailia documentary evidence death cetificate new south wales 1920   

???? deaths major roche meade his wife and daughter died within six months of one another (possibly middlesex)--helen what is your documentary evidence to confirm the above do you have his wifes maiden name 

1848 november 17th helen you write on one of your messages this date for the death of major meade can you confirm your documentary evidence 

1849 november 16th death middlesex of major roche meade deputy assistant adjutant general of horse guards in london r h a r g o and horseguard    major roche meade left a third of his estate to his next of kin one of who was described as catherine fitzmaurice widow catherine street limerick   mary anne meade widow of booterstown and stephen meade sols of dublin   will was administered by john chalmers of london and stephen meade solicitor of dublin  estate amount £3,000;00;00------helen who is mary anne meade widow of booterstown 

1849  kate fitzmaurice appears to be handling her brothers estate as an amount sent to stephen meade for his expenses in london for five pounds also for order on P b of reland of £651;03s;09d----helen is this catherine fitmaurice widow catherine street limerick---did you get her death c f certificate  

1849 end of year estate amount sent to sydney

1850 april 22nd estate amount sent to sydney          order on sydney         trfo you 38 pounds kate fitzmaurice   

1850 april 29th pounds trfo for order on sydney £102;02s;06d

1850 october 7th debit side of the account by share of est roche meade £855;14s;09d dated october 7th 1850  

1850 december henry fitzmaurice with two children arrive aboard the andromache into port adelaide 

1851 may 24th trfr for order on sydney for pounds 53;19;11 ---53 pounds one and six current account prepared by a john chalmers in london directed to mrs kate fitzmaurice from her brothers estate captain roche meade states among other amounts 1850 april 22nd trfo you 38 pounds kate fitzmaurice 1850 april 29th trfo for order on sydney 102.2.6 1851 may 24th trfr for order on sydney for pounds 53.19.11 errors accepted london 24th may 1851 john chalmers october 7th debit side of the account by share of est roche meade £855;14s;09d dated october 7th 1850

1851 copy of distribution of funds for the sale goods from the estate of captain/major roche meade to his sister in sydney mrs kate fitzmaurice kathryn not kathleen 

1850s mary agnes fitzmaurice austrailia your great great grandmother holds estimate of her uncle major roche estate and a couple of minatures of him 

1853 january 6th marraige mary agnes fitmaurice aged 18 years wedding to a mr robert william grant aged 30 years  england documentary evidence 1856 birth certificate of robina mary josephine and new south wales death certificate 1920 married at 16 years to a robert grant in sydney nsw

1854 pasage mrs fitzmaurice and one child on board the london from port philip to sydney in 1854    

1856 august 21st sydney birth robina mary josephine grant or robina marie first daughter to mary agnes fitzmaurice williamson grant born in ireland to catherine meade and henry fitzmaurice  (ten years from her marraige 1846) maiden name williamson put on new south wales birth certificate   no one seems to know who robert grant is 

1856 march 22nd death stephen meade  

1857 may 24th document mrs kate fitzmaurice with john chalmers in account currently credit side of document says by share of est roche meade £855;14s;09d

1859 april birth william grant father robert grant mother mary grant   

1859 october 17th death certificate buried in ashfred church yard by a protestant minister of baby boy william grant aged 7 month father robert grant labourer mother mary  grant formerly unknown  informant agnes grant of canterbury new south wales friend 

1861 april 6th birth of selina mary violet grant your great grandmother second daughter of mary agnes fitzmaurice grant your great great grandmother and robert william grant (overseer surveyor)  

1862 robina adopted by a sea captain and his wife and taken abroad with them aged 6 years old went to india and then to scotland where robina lived with them robina stayed in contact with her family and sisters when overseas  

1862 january mary agnes fitzmaurice spinster married a mark powell

1863 birth charles william powell died not long after he was born 

1864 birth sydney parramalta field of mars allordinda (alarinina) corlinda carlotta powell of first daughter to mary agnes fitzmaurice and mark powell

1870 october 10th birth lucille eugenie florence of second daughter to mary agnes fitzmaurice (aged 31 years on birth certificate) and mark powell     from 1920 death ceretificate mary agnes aged 40 years) 

1874 robina mother (scotland??) asked her to return to austrailia 

1883 selina  granddaughter of the late henry james fitmaurice captain of hm 3rd buffs                                                        great granddaughter of the late james fitzmaurice of ballybunion house kerry ireland                                                          great grand niece of the late lord henry petty fitzmaurice marquiss of lansdowne and earl of kerry                                 great granddaughter of the late john thomas meade esq of limerick and belleview castleconnell                                 grand niece of late major roche meade r h a r g o and horseguard                                                                                            grand niece of late richard harold meade esq belleview castleconnell ireland----helen who is this                                       helen your great grandmother selina mary violet inherited jewellery from her mother mary agnes  

1920 death sydney nsw of mary agnes fitmaurice williamson grant powell died aged 90 suffering from old age dementia 

2012 helen 

Hi William - here are some more answers. I've been in Sydney for three days, hence the delay in responding.

1. Thomas Meade married Eleanor Rochefort or Rochfort - I don't have a record but their eldest son Thomas Meade was born about 1765/6 in Limerick and died about 1830 in St Audeons, in Dublin. I do have a copy of an Abstract of the Will of Thomas Meade, Limerick, Gent dated 1791. I can scan this and forward to an email address if you wish.

2. Thomas and Eleanor's son Thomas Harold Meaade was born about 1798.

3. John Meade (John Meade Thomas) was born in 1768 but I don't have any documentation

4. Eleanor Meade, (daughter of Thomas and Eleanor) who married John Fennell had three children, Edmond (who became a firm friend and business partner with John Meade Thomas) Eleanor and Helen. Helen marrried John Magrath of nenagh in 1809 in St. Audeons, Dublin.

5. Joanna Meade died in Kinsale on 25 August 1824. She married Peter, Cleary, son of Denis Clary of Roscrea, a Revenue Officer at Kinsale, Cork.

6. Mary Meade who married John Henry Roan of Roscrea, County Tipperary. I don't  have anything more at this stage.

7. Mary Ann (Roche) Meade - wife of John Meade Thomas - Baptism date 8 February 1760 at Parish of St Mary's, County of Limerick, Denomination Roman Catholic. Father John Roche, Mother, Catherine Harrold (sometimes Harold). No sponsors or notes on record.

8. The certificate of marriage of John Meade Thomas (son of Thomas Meade)and Mary Ann Roche only has witnesses as Philip Roche and Francis Arthur. Mary Ann Roche's mother's maiden name was Harold - my mistake.The baptism certificate has her name as 'Mary Ann Roche' whereas the marriage cerificate just has 'Mary Roche'. Not sure if there is anything to be read into this.

9. Richard Meade baptism 23 August 1791 in the Church of St Mary's Limerick , Parish of St Mary's. Parents John Meade and Mary Roche. Sponsors ? Fennell and Widow Meade.

10. No documentary evidence of the birth of Major Roche Meade on 24 July 1970 apart from his own handwritten statement to this effect contained in Army Records in Kew. I can get a copy of that if you wish.

11. What do you mean by 'are there any other baptisms recorded - for Roche Meade or other children of John Meade and Mary Anne. I do have the following Church Baptism Records for the other children: 

• Thomas Meade bapt  22 July 1786, Parish St Mary's, County Limerick, RC Father John Meade Mother Mary Roche  - Sponsors Thomas Meade and Widow Casey
• Catherien (sic) Meade bapt 28 Oct 1788 Parish St Mary's, County Limerick, RC Father John Meade Mother Mary Roche - Sponsors Stephen Roche and Ellen Roche
• Helen Meade bapt 6 Jan 1790 Parish St Mary's, County Limerick, RC Father John Meade, Mother Mary Roche Sponsors Francis Arthur and Johanna Connell
• Richard Meade bapt 23 August 1791, Parish St Mary's County Limerick, RC Father John Meade, Mother Mary Roche - Sponsors ? Fennell and Widow Meade
• Catherine Meade bapt 26 May 1794 - Parish of St Mary's County Limerick, RC Father John Meade and Mother Mary Roche

12 I have not been able to find a baptism record for Mary-Anne Meade  (married Bernard Burgess)  or (Thomas) Roche Meade. However it is specifically stated in the administration of the estate of Major  Roche Meade  that Mary-Anne (nee Meade) Burgess is his full sister but is a widow in 1849 like her sister Kate Fitzmaurice. They are both widows in 1849 when their brother Roche Meade died. Their half brother Stephen Meade did the administration of Roche Meade's estate so I am presuming he would know the marital status of his sisters and their addresses. Mary Anne (Meade) Burgess was living at Temple Hill, Booterstown, Dublin in 1848 and Kate Fitzmaurice was liviing in Catherine Street, Limerick in 1849.

13 The children of John Meade Thomas and Mary Ann I believe to be the following:  Thomas b 1786, Catherien (the first Catherine b 1788 but believed to have died, Helen b 8 Jan 1790, Roche (in his army statement b 24 July 1790 in Charleville - seven months after Helen but remembering these are baptism dates not birth dates), Richard August 1791, the second Catherine b May 1794 and somewhere along the line, Mary Anne. Their mother died in July 1795.

14. Documentary evidence of birth of Catherine Meade is from St Mary's Church, Athlunkard Street, Limerick obtained o 28 January 1993 from a Brendan Connellan PP as well as my recently obtained record which says 'Catherine Meade, date of baptism 26 May 1795, parish of St Mary's County of Limerick, Denomination Roman Catholic, Father John Meade, Mother Mary Roche. No sponsors. I have a Church Burial Record for her mother Mary Ann (Roche) Meade as being date of death 8 July 1795, Parish of St Mary's, County of Limerick, Denomination: Church of Ireland and the word 'Mrs' in Notes. There are no informants.

15. It is correct that there is nowhere to be found the actual birth date of Mary Agnes Fitzmaurice.

16. Mary Agnes' death certificate states her mother's name as 'Mary Kathleen Meade' not Catherine. I don't know if anything should be read into this.

17 What is the record 1835 - birth Mary Agnes from wedding certificate 1853?

18. In your notes you have the following   '1838/39 marriage of Catherine Meade (b 1794) wedding to Mr Henry Fitzmaurice Captain of HM 4rd Royal Buffs, son of Jame s Fitzmaurice, Family of County Clare (Henry James Fitzmaurice, Captain of Hm 3rd Buffs died before 1883) etc. Have you found a record of a marriage between Catherine Meade and Henry Fitzmaurice???

19. Death certificate of 'Thomas Roche Meade' as follows:  Registration District Kensington, Paddinton and Fulham 1849 Death in the Sub-district of Brompton, in the County of Middlesex. Died 19 November 1849. Islington Brompton: Name Thomas Roche Meade, Age 58: Occupation Major and Deputy Assistant Adjutant General: Cause of Death:  Disease of the Heart - Certified: Informant:  Sarah Saxby, Present at death: 3 Glyde Terrace, Valedonian Road, Islington: When Registered  21 November 1849.

20. Unfortunately no maiden name of Roche's wife Maria. She was buried on 19 August 1835 aged 21 at 23 Trevor Terrace, St Margaret, Westminster and their daughter Alice was buried on 5 April 1834 aged 6 months at Cadogan Street, Chelsea,St Luke. Alice Meade was baptised on 6 November 1833 showing her father as Roche Meade and mother as Maria Meade. This was in the Brompton Holy Trinity, Borough of kensington and Chelsea.

21  Mary Anne (nee Meade) Burgess (next of kin in Roche Meade's Estate administration) is his full sister and a full sister to Kate (Catherine Meade) Fitzmaurice. I don't have any record of Mary Anne's birth.It was not with all the other siblings in Limerick, St Mary's. She married a Bernard Burgess and records have been found of Mary Ann Burgess living with her two children - Bernard Junior and Kate - in London. She was obviously widowed by 1849 but when I don't know. She married Bernard Burgess in 1824. He was the brother of Maria Burgess who married Stephen Meade - the half brother of Roche, Kate and Mary Anne.

22. It was Stephen Meade and John Chalmers who were appointed administrators of Roche Meade's estate. The document we have in our possession is 'To Mrs Kate Fitzmaurice' from John Chalmers showing her how her share of Roche Meade's estate was being distributed - and obviously according to her instructions.

23. I have applied for the death certificate of a Katharine Fitzmaurice who died in Dublin South i  1874. It states her estimated death year as being 1798 and age at death being 76. I don't know if this her the right Katharine.

24 You mention in paragraph starting with words '1857 May 24th document Mrs Kate Fitzmaurice with John Chalmers in account currently...' this date should be 1851.

25. Also worth mentioning that there is a 'Mrs Fitzmaurice - Nurse' present at the birth of baby Grant in 1859 - coincidence????

26. My Great Grandmother Selina  - there is no record of her birth. She had a birthdate of 6 April 1861 but there is no record of her birth anywhere. Selina was the third child of Mary Agnes and whoever?

27. No official adoption of Rubenie - Robina.

28. I notice in the marriage notice of my Great Grandmother Selina that reference is made to her being the grandniece of late Major Roche Meade and 'late Richard Harold Meade'. Richard Harold Meade was a son of Thomas Meade and Helena (Roche) Meade. Roche Meade's brother was only 'Richard Meade' - not 'Richard Harold Meade'. Seems the family could not get names right on this document. Mary Agnes (nee Fitzmaurice, then Grant) Powell would have been around at the time her daughter Selina married Arthur Gordon in 1883 and they were all living in Sydney. So I am guessing the information was given by Mary Agnes for the newspaper advertisement. I don't know definitely if Mary Agnes' mother was ever in Australia. I can't find any death reference in Australia for a Mrs Kate Fitzmaurice.

29. Recently I found a newspaper 'Missing Persons' advertisement in 1854 in the Sydney Morning Herald from a 'Stephen Meade from Limerick would be happy to hear from his Aunt, Mrs Fitzmaurice otherwise Mrs O'Kelly'.

30. I also have a copy of a letter from a 'T. Gloster to Stephen Meade Esq.' which reads as follows:

      'United Service Club - Pall Mall dated London 25th December 1849.

       Dear Sir

       I beg to acknowledge the reeipt of your letter of yesterday's date thanking me on the part of your Sisters for my assistance respecting the affairs of your poor Brother; and presenting me with the Sword worn by my ever to be lamented friend which I shal retain on remembrance of him to the latest period of my existence; and for which I beg to return to your Sisters and yourself my warmest thanks. I remain Dear Sir, Very faithfully Yours, T Gloster'

31. I also have (original) an invitation to Major Roche Meade as follows:

      'To Major Meade -Horse Guards

       Dear Major Meade

       If you happen to be disengaged today will you give us the pleasure of your Company at 7 (next word   indecipherable).  Very sincerely Yours, - can't read signature.

This document has a black wax seal on it.

William I hope this has answered all your question. The item I am really interested in that is contained in your document is reference to an 1838/39 marriage of Catherine Meade to Mr Fitzmaurice. Is this your discovery or just an assumption.

Best get this information off to you before it disappears into the ether. Please don't hesitate to let me know if something doesn't make sense. There are a lot of documents on my desk now!!

Helen

helen from all your information

i have updated my first posting with the relevant information and added a bit thanks

from your own update 1-31 i have the following queries

11 & 13 baptism thomas meade is the year 1786 or 1787 july 22nd

10-11-13 it does seem a bit odd that there are two sons named thomas's in the family born 1786 and 1790 and for all the other births to have taken place in limerick but roche meade to have taken place in charleville cork--that is why i was asking you if any other births took place in charleville for any other members of the family

1791 copy of abstract of the will of thomas meade limerick cert dated 1791 -----who does he mention in the will the names of his brothers sisters and sons and daughters and wife ---what are they ---are there any other names 

11-13-14 catherine birth is 1794 may 26th or 1795 may 26th 

12-13 birth somewhere along the line mary anne and you have checked saint marys parish limerick and have not found it along with richard roche meade but you did find thomas and catherien and helen and richard  

1819 death richard meade in jamacia (b1791) aged 28 what is your documentary evidence for this

1821 death of john meade thomas (b17680 what documentary record are you using for this

17 birth mary agnes 1835 helen only computing this date from 1853 marraige certificate mary agnes aged 18 also from mary agnes death certifcate 1920 aged 90 = 1830 born which you use also

28 1883 marraige notice selina mary violet --helen is there an age given for selina ---henry petty fitmaurice did have a brother who had a son james fitzmaurice but there is no record of his son henry james captain of hm 3rd buffs although the third buffs do travel around quite a lot even going to india  

i put out an enquiry for roche meade in charleville but do not reckon there are any records for 1790

as soon as any other information comes in i will get back to you  

Hi William

Baptism of Thomas Meade is  22 July 1786

Roche Meade was usually known as Roche Meade but I notice on his death certificate it had Thomas Roche Meade. He quite clearly states that he was born on 24 July 1790 in Charleville. He might have put the 1790 date to appear a bit older. There is also a sister Helen Meade baptised 8 January 1790 - mother and father same - John Meade and Mary Roche. Sponsors are Francis Arthur and Johanna Connell and at the same St Mary's Church in Limerick. These are baptism dates and not birth dates whereas the date Roche submits for army records is his birth date. I don't know what happened to Helen Meade and she is not mentioned in Roche Meade's estate administration dated December 1849 as being a sister, whereas Kate and Mary Anne (Meade) are, along with his half brother Stephen Meade.

1797 Abstract is as follows

Meade, Thomas to Ankettle....501...498...332813

Memorial of indented Deed of Settlement dated 2 December 1797 between John Meade (Thomas) of the City of Limerick Esq. of the one part, Mary Ankettle of the City of Dublin spinster of the 2nd part and John Roche of William St. in the City of Dublin Esq. of the 3rd part.

Reciting that a marriage is intended shortly to be had been John Meade Thomas (his second marriage as his first wife was Mary Anne Roche) and Mary Ankettle and that in consideration of the said marriage and of One Thousand Pounds being the fortune of said Mary Ankettle to said John Meade Thomas paid by said John Roche he, the said John Meade Thomas did....agree....that if Mary Ankettle should survive him the said John Meade Thomas the Exors. of the said John Meade Thomas shall pay to Mary Ankettle or her assigns the principal sum of Two Thousand Pounds.....

Further reciting that said John Meade Thomas as a member of a certain Society called the friendly Annuity Society in the County of the City of Limerick is entitled to dispose of the yearly sum of Forty Pounds payable by half yearly instalments by said company during the life of his wife in case she shall survive  him and said John Meade Thomas as member of another Society called the Universal Annuity Society can dispose of...in like manner....

Witnesses: Philip  Long of the City of Dublin Esq. and Walter Prendegast of said City Attorney.

Then William, in 1800 the following:

Registry of Deeds Office, Dublin (1800-1809)

Meade, John and wife to Roche...527...401...352466

Memorial of an Indented Deed of three parts bearing date 10 December 1800 and made between:

John Meade of the City of Limerick....of the 1st part.

Mary Meade formerly Mary Ankettle spinster, wife of the said John Meade of the 2nd part.

John Roche of the City of Dublin.. of the 3rd part.

Reciting certain Articles executed previous to and in consideration of a marriage which afterwards took place between John Meade and Mary his wife. In these marriage Articles no provision was made for the issue of the said John Meade and the said Mary; John Meade therefore, in order to remedy this omission, and for five shillings to him paid by the said John Roche.....did covenant....with said John Roche....that if John Meade shall die leaving any child or children by said Mary his present wife, the executors of said John Meade shall within six months after his death pay to John Roche, his Executors or Assigns, the clear sum of Four Thousand Pounds with interest from the time of the death of the said John Meade, upon trust that the said Four Thousand Pounds be used as follows:

If there should be one child by the said Mary, the said John Meade's present wife, such child to have the whole sum in whatever way said John Meade should by Deed or Will direct and appoint.

If there should be two or more children, sons or daughters, then the Four Thousand Pounds should be dispensed among them, as said John Meade should directo.

If no such direction by made, the Four Thousand Pounds to be equally divided among the children....theportion of a son or sons to be paid at the age of 21 years...the portion of a daughter or daughters at the age of 21 years or date of marriage.

The second Catherine Meade (my GX3 Grandmother) was baptised on 26 May 1794 not born on this date.

Richard Meade son of John Meade Thomas and Mary Roche was baptisedon 23 August 1791. He was known as Richard Harold Meade not Richard Roche Meade.

It is correct that I haven't been able to locate any birth records for Mary Ann Meade. She married a Bernard Burgess who was the brother of Maria Burgess. Maria married Mary Ann Meade's half brother Stephen Meade - the only surviving son of John Meade Thomas and Mary (Ankettle) Meade. They had a son George who died in 1805 at the age of 5. Mary Ann (Meade) Burgess is mentioned in her brother, Roche Meade's estate administration as being 'Mary Ann Burgess, widow'. So both Roche Meade's sisters were widows at the time his estate was administered in 1849.

Richard Meade's death - recorded in Ennis Chronicle on Saturday January 1820 - as follows: 'died on the 20th of Oct. last of Jamaica, of fever, Richard Meade Eaq., formerly Distributor of Stamps in Limerick, and son of John Meade Thomas Esq.

I am checking where the source of John Meade Thomas's death came from but I have 1821.

I obtained permission to access medical records of my GG Grandmother Mary Agnes (Fitzmaurice/Grant) Powell to see if there was any information in those records that might shed light on her parentage. She was admitted into hospital in 1918 at the age of 88 (supposedly) and died in Rydalmere Mental Hospital three weeks after admittance at the age of 90 (supposedly). Her birth date on the records is 'unknown'. The vessel she arrived on is 'unknown'. Her parents are 'Henry Fitzmaurice, place of birth 'unknown' occupation Army'. Her mother is 'Mary Kathleen or Kathryn Meade, birth place Ireland'. Mary Agnes' birth place is 'County Clare, Ireland'. She is said to have been in the colonies for 75 years (in 1918) and then 77 years in 1920 when she died. The information about her daughters is very scant, stating she only had one daughter whereas in fact she had four and all were living at the time of their mother's death. Her marriages are to a William Grant at the age of 16 and then Mark Powell at the age of 35. On the birth of her first daughter Rubenie she states she was married to Robert William Grant in London in January 1853 at the age of 18! The records also show that she was 35 years old in 1862 when she married Mark Powell which would make her born in 1827. This would make it a bit more feasible for her mother to be Mary Kathryn or Kathleen or Catherine as she was born in 1794 and therefore would have been 32 when she had Mary Agnes. But it also would have made Mary Agnes 94 years old when she died. She was very frail and described as being a very old woman. So it could have been possible. She had brown eyes and was only 5 ft 1 inch tall and weighed 6 stone. In testing her for dementia, she could remember her name as 'Mary Agnes' but not a surname and talked about owing a property and big house, which was dismissed by staff, however was true. She and her husband Mark Powell built a big home called 'Holly Park' in a suburb of Sydney.

Both the late Richard Meade and the late Roche Meade are mentioned in the marriage notice of Selina Mary Violet Grant and Arthur Gordon. Selina is said to be 21 years of age in 1883 when she married Arthur.

Relatives went through Army records in Sydney and were never able to find a Henry Fitzmaurice being in the 3rd Buffs in Australia.

I did find record of Captain Roche Meade when he was in the 1st 21st Foot Regiment as being in Sydney but nothing else. I will find this link and send it.

Bye for now

helen

did you say you had a copy of the abstract of the will of thomas meade limerick certificate dated 1791--what is written in this will abstract regarding his families parents or siblings   

Unfortunately William, I have not been able to locate, so far, any Will Abstract or Deed relating to the marriage of John Meade (son of Thomas Meade - senior) and Mary Ann Roche. I would think that there must be something as Mary Ann Roche came from a wealthy family - her mother was Catherine Harold and father John Roche. I think that is why Richard Meade was named Richard Harold Meade. It would also make sense that because John Meade had a Will Abstract when he married Mary Ankettle - his second marriage after Mary Ann Roche died in 1795 - that he would have a Will for the first. Also, it seems as if he was a very 'legal' man as when it was realised that the first Will Abstract between him, John Roche and Mary Ankettle did not make provision for any children from that union (being as it turned out Stephen Meade) that provision was in the form of an additional abstract to have that omission corrected.

In Roche Meade's Will abstract, it is stated that the proceeds of his estate are to go to his 'only next of kin' being Kate (Meade) Fitzmaurice and Mary Ann (Meade) Burgess - both widows and his half brother Stephen Meade. We know that Richard Meade died in Jamaica in 1819 and from Church Records there appears to be a Helen Meade and Thomas Meade.  Thomas Meade was born in 1786 and was the first born son of Thomas Meade and Mary Ann Roche.  I have a copy of a document titled 'Pedigree sketches from the 1808 Limerick Tontine Schedule. Articles of Agreement signed on the 2 January 1807. The ages given should be subtracted from 1806. Compiled by Noel Murphy. It appears like this:

No 58

John Meade, fitzThomas = Mary Anne Roche 1st wife, Dead - John wed Mary on the 10/12/1785. Mary died 5/7/1795

Merchant

Rutland St

Limerick

                                                                                 Thomas Meade

                                                                                  Eldest son

                                                                                  Age 19

So subtract the age from 1806 gives the year of his birth as 1787 whereas the St Mary's Church records have him baptised on 22 July 1786 by Father O'Gorman parents  John Meade and Mary Roche, Sponsors Thomas Meade (must be grandfather) and a Widow Casey - don't know who she is - might be a 'friend' of old Thomas Meade senior.

I do have a Church Baptism Record for Mary Ann Roche - baptised 8 February 1760 in the Parish of St Mary's, County of Limerick, Denomination Romand Catholic,Father John Roche Mother Catherine Harrold.

I do have a church burial record for her - 'Unknown Meade' Date of death 8 July 1795, Parish of St Mary's, County of Limerick, Denomination: Church of Ireland (all RC burials were in the C of I area of the Graveyard) and the words 'Mrs' noted on the record.

I do have an Abstract of Will dated 1791 for Thomas Meade (senior) leaving his estate to his wife Eleanor Meade. These are the parents of Thomas Meade, the father of John Meade (son of Thomas Meade). The document reads as follows:

Abstract of Will of:

Thomas Meade, Limerick, gent, 1791

(Perogative Court)

'I Thomas Meade of the City of Limerick, gent."

"I leave and bequeathe:

To my loving wife Eleanor Meade the yearly profit of eighteen pounds arising to me out of the house now inhabited by my son John Meade in the City of Limerick to be paid in two equal instalments on the 1st May and 1st November.

To Paul Rochfort....and my said son John Meade...five hundred pounds upon the trust hereinafter mentioned....to lay out same in good securities at interest to be approved of...by my wife...the interest to be paid to my wife during her natural life by half yearly instalments.....Trustees with consent of my wife to have power to call in the principal sum from the security in which it may be invested, and invest it again....

If the interest is not regularly paid, one hunred pounds is to be taken from the five hundred pounds to make up the deficiency so that the eighteen pounds arising from the house and the thirty pounds lawful interest on the five hundred pounds should make up forty eight pounds per annum.

 I direct that after my wife's death, two hundred pounds of the principal sum of five hundred pounds be paid to my grandson Thomas Meade and one hundred pounds of the five hundred pounds to my grandson John Meade, if said grandchildren be then living.

I bequeathe: To my said son John Meade his Executors.....the remining part of the five hundred pounds.

To my grandson Thomas Meade his heirs....after my wife's death the profit of eighteen pounds arising out of the aforesaid house for the entire of my estate and interest therein.

To said Paul Rochefort and my son John Meade and the survivor three hundred ounds on trust to lay it out as soon as possible upon good security and to pay the interest to my daughter Johanna Cleary the wife of Peter Clearly of Roscrea to her sold and separate use.

In case my said daughter survive her husband without issue by him, the three hundred pounds is to remain and be paid to Johanna Cleary her Exors....If she have issue by her husband the three hundred pounds is to go to sue issue in such manner as the said Johanna Cleary may appoint. If Johanna Cleary die befor her husband the three hundred pounds is to be divided betwee by two sons John and Thomas.....share and share alike.

I will that four hundred pounds be laid out at Interest by the Trustees on good securities....the interest to be paid to my daughter Mary Roan wife of John Roan for her natural life and for her sole use. If she die before her husband one hundred pounds out of the four hundred pounds shall be at the disposal of my said daughter Mary and the remainder of the four hundred pounds shall be divided equally between my sons John and Thomas.

To my grandson Edmund Fennel one hundred pounds, to his sister my granddaughter Eleanor Fennell one hundred pounds, the said one hundred to be paid to her at her marriage, if with the consent of her father John Fennell, and my son John Meade or at her age of 21 years.

If my grandson Edmund Fennel should die before the age of 21 years, or my granddaughter die unmarried before 21, then the sum of one hundred pounds for the grandchildren is to be paid to my son Thomas.

To my sons in law John Fennell, Peter Cleary and John Roan 13 pence each in full of any claims or expectations they might have or pretend to have against me.

To my brother Richard Meade ten pounds.

To my sister Anne the widow of Denis Warham of Charleville en pounds.

To my loving wife all my household furniture plates etcl for her life and after her decease to my son Thomas Meade.

To my sister in law Ann Connell wife to James Connell of said City of Limerick, twenty two pounds fifteen shillings.

All the rest and and residue to my son Thomas Meade.

Executors: Thomas Bourke of pennywill in the suburbs of Limerick and my sons John and Thomas,

Witnesses:  James Mahon, William McAllister, James Holland.

Will signed and sealed the 10th November 1790. Proved in 1791 (Prerogative Court).

The crest on the seal seems to be an arm and hand grasping a dagger. There is no motto".

Apologies for any typos.

Thomas Meade died Creagh Lane, Limerick, June 1791 seven months after the his will was signed and Eleanor Rochfort Meade his wife died Mary Street, limerick in 1801.

At the date of old Thomas Meade Senior (my Great x 7 Grandfather) there is only mention of the grandson Thomas Meade (son of John Meade and Mary Ann Roche). There is no mention of any other grandchildren. John Meade and Mary Ann's first daughter named Catherine was baptised on 28 October 1788 but she died.Helen Meade, another daughter was baptised on 8 January 1790,  (witnesses Johanna Connell and Francis Arthur (a distant relation of the Roche Family) and Johanna Connell is Eleanor's sister who married a Connell).

Another granddaughter is mentioned being Eleanor Fennell, sister of Edmund Fennell, so I am wondering whether Helen Meade may have died as a baby as well and that is why she was not mentioned.Roche Meade said his was born in on 24 July 1790 in Charleville, yet he is not mentioned in the Will, although born, if the information is correct, four months before the will was signed and sealed on 10th November 1790. I think Roche was actually born in 1791 and he may have made out that he was a bit older than he really was. Richard Meade was baptised three months after Thomas Meade (senior) died in June 1791. Katherine, or Catherine Meade was baptised on 24 May 1794 and there is no record of her sister Mary Ann being born.

So what do you make of all of this. Have you any breakthroughs or further information that might help me discover more about my Great Great Grandmother Mary Agnes. If it wasn't for the documents in her possession and passed down through the family, I would start to wonder whether I really have the right family. But the accounts document to Mrs Kate Fitzmaurice and the valuation documents of the goods and chattles of Roche Meade, as well as the letters to Stephen Meade thanking him for Roche Meade's sword, seem to link Mary Agnes to that family. Also the miniature brooches which were worn by the women in the family which we said to be of Mary's uncle Roche Meade.

I think that is enough reading for you. Can you tell me a bit about yourself - where do you live - are you related to the Meades/Roches?

Bye for now.

Helen

helen you write 

at the date of old thomas meade senior there is only mention of the grandson thomas meade son of john meade and mary ann roche there is no mention of any other grandchildren

then you write from the will abstract i direct that after my wifes death two hundred pounds  of the principal sum of five hundred pounds be paid to my grandson thomas meade and one hundred pounds of the five hundred pounds to my grandson john meade if said grandchildren be then living

to my grandson edmund fennel

to my granddaughter eleanor fennell

helen are you saying there are 1 two  3 or four grandchildren 

Four grandchildren -brothers John and Thomas Meade - the sons of Thomas Meade and Eleanor Rochfort Meade and Edmund Fennell and Eleanor Fennell - son and daugher of EleanorMeade,  who married John Fennell.  Eleanor was one of three daughters of Thomas Meade and Eleanor Rochfort Meade - the other two being Joanna and Mary. The five children were Thomas who married Helena Maria Roche1792, Eleanor who married John Fennell in 1790. Joanna who married Peter Cleary, Mary who married John Henry Roan in Feb 1789 and John Meade Thomas who married firstly Mary Ann Roche in 1785 and then Mary Ankettle daughter of the late John Ankettle of Limerick. They were married on 2 December 1797 and had Stephen Meade and George who died at the age of 5.

helen

helen i have the following 

???? A. thomas meade d1790 married eleanor rochfort

 1765 B. birth thomas meade son of A.  above 

1768 C. birth john meade son of A. above 

1786 D. baptism thomas meade son of C. above and grandson of A. above 

1790 E. marraige of eleanor meade to john fennell 

???? F. birth edmond fennell to E. above and grandson to A. above  

???? G. birth eleanor fennell to E. above and granddaughter  to A. above 

1791. H. thomas meade at A. died 

helen     thomas at A. has grandchildren D. F. G.   that is three grandchildren not four 

i am missing the birth of grandchild john do you know his date of birth 

1. Thomas Meade - son of John Meade Thomas and Mary Ann Roche - baptised in Limerick 22/7/1786

2. John Meade - son of John Meade Thomas and Mary Ann Roche - no baptism but mentioned in Will of Thomas Meade signed and sealed 10 November 1790. This has to be the John, a son of John Thomas Meade and Mary Ann as John Meade, being the son of Thomas Meade and Helena was not born until 1801.

3. Edmund Fennell -

4. Eleanor Fennell she gets one hundred pounds on her marriage provided it is with the consent of her father John Fennell and the son of Thomas Meade Senior, John Meade.

There are three Thomas Meades mentioned in this Will.  The old Thomas Meade making the Will, his son Thomas Meade, and the son of John Meade (from whom I descend) Thomas Meade baptised 1786.

Thomas Meade, the son of old Thomas Meade and brother of John Meade (from who I descend) and who married Helena Roche, also had a son John Meade who was born in 1801.

I am also missing the birth of grandchild John and it is because he is mentioned in this Will Abstract dated 1790 as being his grandson that we know he was the son of John Meade and Mary Roche. There were only two sons to Thomas and Eleanor being John and Thomas. The other children were girls - Eleanor, Johanna and Mary. The only two married at the time the Will was made were John Meade (from whom I descend) and Eleanor who married John Fennell. Their two children at the time of the signing of the will were Edmund and Eleanor.

In correspondence from another researcher in England, she mentions another Deed dated 1814 in which there is reference to a John Junior. I have asked her for a copy of this Deed. However in 1814 there will be two John Meade Juniors to contend with - John Meade and Mary (Roche) Meade's - John and Thomas Meade and Helena (Roche) Meade's John was baptised in 1798 although I have seen his birthdate also as 1801.

I will let you have the details of that Will when it arrives.

Where a Will is mentioned as 'Proved' - is this the date the person making the Will died. If so, then old Thomas Meade Senior and father of Thomas, John, Eleanor, Johanna and Mary died in 1791 - actually according to the Limerick Journal he died on Thursday 7 July 1791 'It reads:  Limerick Journal, Mon 11 July 1791 died last Thursday in Creagh Lane, Mr Thomas Meade formerly an eminent haberdasher.

The Clare Journal of Tuesday 3 Sept. 1801 reports:  'Limerick, 2nd: died this morning in Mary St., Mrs Meade relict of Mr Thomas Meade late of this city.This is Eleanor Rochfort Meade.

In the 1808 Limerick Tontine Schedule Thomas Meade is the Eldest son of John Meade and Mary Anne Roche and I have his baptism date as July 1786. John Meade and Mary Ann (Roche) Meade married 10 September 1785. So Thomas was their first born. The next child is a Catherine in October 1788 but she died and is not mentioned in the Will. In the collection of copies of Birth and Baptismal Certificates obtained from St Mary's in Limerick, a copy of any record of the birth of John Meade did not come with the other records of the birth of children of John Meade and Mary Ann Roche Meade. But that does not mean that it does not exist. We don't have any record of Roche Meade or Mary Ann Meade yet it is recorded in Burke's Peerage that Captain Roche Meade was the son of Mary Ann Roche and John Meade Thomas. Mary Ann is mentioned in Roche Meade's will as being 'next of kin'.

I think Helen Meade would have been the next to be born/baptised on 8 January 1790. There would not have been enough time between when the first Catherine died (don't know when) and Helen was baptised for two children to be born.

Roche Meade says he was born - not baptised - on 24 July 1790. This is stated in his army records. Helen could have been born earlier than 8 January 1790 and not been baptised until later. This is the only explanation for the birthdates of Helen and Roche being seven months apart - or Roche got the year wrong or someone recorded it incorrectly.

Richard Meade is next being baptised on 23 August 1791.Richard birth is 13 months after Roche's birthdate.

The next baptism certificate is that of Catherine (I have a copy of that) She was baptised on 26 May 1794 but the record I obtained does not list the sponsors unfortunately. I would have thought there would have been as the other children all had sponsors. I obtained it from RootsIreland. I mention this because all the other certificate I have were obtained back in 1993 by another cousin researching the ancestral roots of our mutual Great Great Grandmother Mary Agnes ?? but supposedly 'Fitzmaurice).

Mary Ann (Roche) Meade wife of John Thomas Meade died in July 1795 - fourteen months after the second Catherine (from whom I descend) was baptised. She would have died in childbirth giving birth to Mary Ann her daughter. I don't know. This is only supposition.

So John Meade (the other grandson and brother of Thomas Meade) to be mentioned in the Will must have been born after the first daughter Catherine (1788) and before Helen (January 1790). He is not mentioned in Roche Meade's Will as next of kin so he must have died before then.

Does all this make sense?

Cheers

Helen