Michael Oates - Dangan-Nugent

Peter:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I located a 1896 civil marriage record for Michael Oates and Mary Burke who I presume are your ancestors.  Michael's father was shown as John. Michael was 35 in the 1901 census and 50 in the 1911 census. In my experience adult ages on the 1901 census were frequently understated. Someone 50 in the 1911 census would be born around 1860. I searched for Michael Oates baptismal records on the subscription site Roots Ireland and the best possible record is the 1857 record shown below. I'd be interested if you think this record might be correct.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10480/5817024.pdf

Roger McDonnell

Name:Michael OatsDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:29-Mar-1857Address:
Parish/District:MOHILL ROMAN CATHOLICGender:MaleCountyCo. Leitrim
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:John OatsMother:Bridget MacgreevyOccupation:

Hello Peter,

Thomas's parents were Michael Oats and Mary Burke according to Thomas's civil registration birth record, which is attached. The birth record is from the free irishgenealogy.ie website.

Thomas was born in Dangan (Nugent) on 12 January 1908. The birth record further shows that his father's occupation was "Labourer." Thomas’s birth is Number 337, (2nd entry) in the register.

Thomas's parents, Michael Oats and Mary Burke were married in the Catholic Chapel of Rodeen, Roscommon, on 30 January 1906. They were both of "full age" at the time of the marriage and both were living in Coralara (Corralara), Roscommon at the time of marriage. Neither had been previously married, as Michael’s “Condition” at the time of marriage was “Bachelor,” while Mary’s condition was “Spinster.”

Michael’s father was John Oats, a labourer. Mary’s father was Thomas Burke, also a labourer.

Michael and Mary were married by father P.A. Flanagan. The witnesses to the marriage were Margaret Lloyd and William Spenser. Michael and Mary’s marriage is the third entry in the attached marriage register from the irishgenealogy.ie website.

The Catholic Chapel in Rodeen, (Civil Parish and Catholic Parish of Aughrim), is called St. Mary’s. You can view the chapel on an Ordnance Survey Map from the 1888 to 1911 time period at the GeoHive link: https://bit.ly/2Y1iDJr

There has been a chapel in Rodeen for quite some time as it is also shown on an Ordnance Survey Map from the 1837 to 1842 time period. See the map from GeoHive: https://bit.ly/3ays3Pi

According to information from the Find-A-Grave site, the original chapel in Rodeen, Aughrim, was constructed in 1790 and rebuilt in 1907, which would have been a year after Michael and Mary were married. I’m not sure how accurate the information about the church being built in 1790 and rebuilt in 1907 is, as no source information is cited for those dates. See: https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2506461/aughrim-rc-church

You can view the church in a Google Street View by going to: https://is.gd/hK7ali

At the time of marriage Michael and Mary had both been living in Corralara. While it may be true that Michael at one time may have lived in Leitrim Village, (though I found no evidence of this), his residence before Dangan, as the marriage record shows, was Coralara/Corralara, County Roscommon..

A Google Map shows that the circuitous route from Corralara in the north, down to Dangan Nugent, and then west to Rodeen, is 9 miles: https://is.gd/2REw6D

Another Google Map shows that Corralara, by the shortest modern day route, is only 3.4 miles north of Dangan Nugent: https://is.gd/3nFDhE

To view Corralara on the Ordnance Survey Map from the 1837 to 1842 time period, go to: https://bit.ly/2Y2Wo6a

A Google Street View shows the road, or boreen, leading into Corralara: https://is.gd/nELVvw

A Google satellite image shows how close Corralara is to the River Shannon and the border with County Leitrim: https://is.gd/uWH1QM

Yet another Google Map shows that Corralara, by the shortest route, is 7.6 miles south of Leitrim Village: https://is.gd/K9QbdS

I next went to the 1901 and 1911 census enumerations to see if there were any Oats and Burke individuals or families living in Corralara, Roscommon, but did not find any, which is an indication that Corralara may not have been the town they and their families were originally from, but I can’t be entirely sure of that.

The 1901 and 1911 census returns make it a challenge to determine when Michael and Mary were born and baptized. For instance, the 1901 census shows that Michael was 35 years old, placing his year of birth circa 1866. Mary is shown to be 34, placing her year of birth circa 1867. But, the 1911 census shows that Michael and Mary are both 50 years old, placing their year of birth circa 1861.

While it helps to have the names of their fathers from the marriage record, you would really need to know the names of their mothers, especially the maiden names of the mothers, to pin down a more exacting lineage for your Oates ancestors.

Concerning your grandparents, you noted your grandfather was Thomas Oates. If he married Kathleen Healy, I believe I found their marriage record at the irishgenealogy.ie website. The marriage took place on 28 November 1938 in the Roman Catholic Church of Dangan. At the time of the marriage Thomas and Kathleen were of “full age,” while Thomas had been a bachelor and Kathleen a spinster. Thomas’s occupation was Labourer. Kathleen was a Domestic Servant. At the time of marriage Thomas’s residence was Dangan, Kilmore. No residence is recorded for Kathleen. Thomas’s father is shown to be Michael Oates. Kathleen’s father was Edward Healy. The priest who married them was John L. Fleming. The witnesses to the marriage were Dan Flanagan and Annie Chapman. The marriage is the first entry in the attached marriage record.

Again Peter, it is possible that a member of your Oats line had one time lived in Leitrim Village, it’s just that I didn’t find any evidence of that in the free online sources I have access to.

With Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

Hi Dave/Roger,

Firstly thankyou for the welcome and more importantly the prompt reply and information. 

This is all awesome information and valued! 

I have attached a document I found myself from the 1851 census. My understanding was that this was undertook my Michael Oates in around 1921 as part of the new state pension that was introduced earlier. And this also was explained to me why there is generally a discrepincy between 1901 and 1911 census. This is due to the fact it enabled country residence applicable to claim a pension to do so a little ealier. Due to records being so bad etc. I do not have the knowledge or expertise to back this up. It was just something that was explained and sort of made sense. (Taking a little bit back from the man!) 

On the attached document is states that Micheal's father was another Michael and lived in Leitrim. I know that at times people would go by middle names if there were multiple's, but again I do not know this for fact. 

On the 1851 census form he has his mother down as Ellen. 

If you look on the left side of the document it also states a number of names, I think this maybe Michael's siblings? Or residents of the house at the time? 

As a matter of interest I've also attached Thomas' brother (Michael of cause!) Servive record from Boyle. Whats interesting is that Michael put down a "Frank" Oates as his farther. Again I assume that this was his brother frank as he didn't want Michael Sr. to know. Perhaps....

Again thank you both for the information. The skill to navigate around these records is greatly appreciated. As a side note I should let you know I am in the process of buying the stone cottage from my cousin that the Oates' were living in in 1901 census. My cousin was left it from my uncle a couple of years ago. She knew I was looking for something to put down root on and offered me the place. This will mean that the land will remain in the Oates' hand for 120 odd years! I plan on keeping it for my kids one day! please god. 

I found an article in the Roscommon herald of the original tender by the Carrick on Shannon Union requesting quotes for 5 labourors cottages, this was in 1889. 2 of which were to be built in Dangan-Nugent. One of which I believe very strongly is the one Michael and Mary Oates moved to around 1896 after their marraige. It is a disaster of a site, but its our piece of history and something I'm keen on preserving!  

Regards, 

Peter Oates

Hi, 

To followup, by searching Mary Burke with father of Thomas Burke in Leitrim (jamestown) which seems to be the same area as Oates from 1851 census (ish)

I found a record here: https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=2533&h=4012523&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=zxh518&_phstart=successSource 

DOB is 1864. This seems to be in the same region? 

Cheers, 

Peter 

Hello Peter,

Many thanks for your quick reply.

Attached is a copy of the original birth record for the Mary Burke whose birth index you found at Ancestry.com. She was born in Corlara (Corralara), Roscommon on 10 October 1864. The ancestry.com index agrees with the birth record that her parents were Thomas Burke and Anne Colligan. Thomas’s occupation was labourer. The person who was present at the birth and who reported the birth to the local registrar was Sally Burke of Corlara. Sally may have been Thomas’s sister.

Mary’s baptism is at Number 148 in the attached register.

Corralara, though in County Roscommon, is indeed in the same region as Jamestown in County Leitrim. A Google Map shows that Jamestown, Leitrim is only 1.5 miles north of Corralara across the River Shannon: https://is.gd/b4cQAj

Jamestown was in the Civil parish of Kiltoghert in County Leitrim.

Keep up the good research Peter.

Dave

Gents, 

I spent some time today taking a look through Griffiths Valuation and located Thomas Burkes land from time of record. See attached. He is at 11a. 

This look's like Mary Burkes place of birth, at the family home. And I imagine the reason for Sally Burke being there at birth. 

I've also attached a google map of the Burkes place in relation to where Mary and Michael ended up getting a home from Carrick on Shannon Union. 

I've also attached the Griffiths Map with a circle to the location of Burkes place. Also, just to the east above is marked Corry. Is it possible that this is where Michael Oates meant from the 1951 census form? He states Corry as the place his Mother and Father were living. If this was the case, it shows how close the families lived. 

Still struggling to track down Michaels farther/mother. There is another Michael Oates in Skeagh about 3 miles over Kilmore as the crow flies. I'm wondering if these two Michaels are cousins. ie. Michaels dad, Michaels and the others etc. Its a little tough to track this down haha. 

Cheers, 

Peter