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Hello - I am doing research from Canada on one branch of my husband's family.  Would appreciate any input; am especially concerned that I have understood the "geography" correctly (parishes, townlands, etc.). My primary sources of information have been Roots Ireland, Ancestry, Griffith's Valuation, census, (& oral history). 

Summary: My husband's great-grandparents are: Simon Armstrong (est. b: abt 1841 based on his Death record) & Margaret Nash (believed to be born in 1845, ref: following Baptismal record).  R.C. Church record says they married 21 June 1873 in the "Parish/District" of Kildorrery.  Unfortunately, no address or parents names listed. They left Cork, lived in Cashel, Co. Tipperary during the birth of their first 2 children (1873, 1875) & then settled in Clonmel, Co. Tipperary by Feb. 1879, where their next child was born.  Simon died suddenly in 1896 (age 55) leaving Margaret a widow with 8 children. She left Ireland with the 7 youngest children & went to England (Census 1901); they all immigrated to Canada in 1904.

Regarding the Nashes in Co. Cork:  I have located one R.C. Church Baptism record which I THINK may apply: Margaret Nash, Bap: 31 August 1845, "address" Ballynoe, "District/Parish": Kildorrery, Father: Thomas Nash; Mother: Margaret Barry.

Assuming this is the correct Margaret Nash (??) - I have found the R.C. Church record of her parent's Marriage: 3 November 1825 with an "address" of Balinoe, "Parish/District": Kildorrery ... and then the birth records for at least 8 children, the youngest of which would be Margaret. All of their Baptismal records have the correct parents, various spellings of Ballynoe, & reference Kildorrery. (Nash children: Catherine 1826, John 1830, Mary 1832, Ellen 1835, James 1838, Amelia 1840, Thomas 1842, Margaret 1845). 

In the Griffith's Valuation (year 1851) there is a Thomas Nash - Landlord: Grace Mansfield, located in the Barony: Fermoy; the Union: Mitchelstown; Parish: Farahy; Townland: Ballynoe (position on page 49, Sheet 18, Map Ref: 3).  There is also a reference to ANOTHER Nash in Ballynoe as follows (year 1852): Mary Nash - Landlord Thomas Nash located in Townland of Ballynoe .... BUT it says that the Barony is Duhallow (Part I); Union: Kanturk; Parish: Kilbrin (position on page 24, Sheet 23, Map Ref: 1).

Lastly, I have also located a memorial grave stone for Thomas Nash & Margaret Barry which was erected by two of their sons (James & Thomas Jr.) which describes them being from "Ballinoe";  Thomas died 11 December 1851; Margaret Barry died 17 June 1867.  This is in the St. Colman's cemetery, Farahy. I had located Margaret Barry's Death record, but not one for Thomas, so finding this head stone was helpful.

QUESTIONS:

1.  Re: Margaret (Nash) Armstrong - Marriage - should I assume if Roots Ireland did NOT include an "address" for the bride &/or groom ... it was NOT recorded on the original documents?  I would feel more confident linking this marriage to the Nash family in Ballynoe, if there was a Ballynoe reference on the marriage record.

2.  What church would Margaret Nash & Simon Armstrong most likely have been married in? (1873 - R.C.)

3.  Re: geography.  I would like to clarify the connection between the Townland of Ballynoe ... and Kildorrery .... and Farahy.  I have seen Kildorrery described as a Parish, in which is located the Townlands of Ballynoe, Farahy, and Kildorrery, which in size, the # of acres are 326, 1,130 & 110 respectively. HOWEVER ... in the Griffith's Valuation the Townland of Ballynoe is described once as being in the Parish of Farahy ... and another time as being in the Parish of Kilbrin.  And neither of them even mention Kildorrery. 

    A. Is Kildorrery a "Civil Parish" in which are the "Church Parishes" of Kildorrery and Farahy?

    B. Which "Parish" best describes where Ballynoe is located?

    C. re: the Griffith Valuations: I am assuming that the Thomas Nash in Ballynoe, in the Parish of Farahy, ties in with the Nash family I have identified.  However, the "Mary Nash" whose "landlord" is "Thomas Nash" ... in Ballynoe ... BUT in the Parish of Kilbrin .... do you think that they are connected??  Was our Thomas renting land from someone himself, but also being a "landlord" as well?

I am hopefull that I have the correct Nash family (from Ballynoe) which links in with the Marriage of Simon Armstrong & Margaret Nash.  A couple of other things which I considered:

1.  All but one of Simon & Margaret's 8 children had exactly the same names as all of Margaret's siblings ... even including the somewhat unique name of Amelia.  The only one of Margaret's siblings who was not honoured with a namesake was her brother John.  HOWEVER ... the last-born child (who was named Simon, likely after his father) ... one of his Baptism Sponsors was "John Nash". 

2. Simon Armstrong & Margaret Nash left Kildorrery and went directly to Cashel ... where they lived on Main Street ... and Simon was a "shopkeeper". They then moved to Clonmel by at least 1879.  About a decade later, in various documents, we see someone who is possibly one of Margaret's siblings: In the 1889 Cashel Bassett's Directory: "Thomas Nash - Grocer - Main Street - Spirits".  Later, in the 1901 & 1911 Census, this Thomas Nash describes himself as having been born in Co. Cork and continues to have his shop at #35 Main Street, Cashel.  Also, his first wife died, and coincidentally, it appears that when he remarried at the age of 44, his second wife might have been born in Clonmel (where Simon Armstrong & Margaret Nash settled). 

Sorry this was so long!!   I am just wishing that I had a more secure link between the Margaret Nash who married Simon Armstrong ... and the Nash family in Ballynoe.  Any input would be appreciated!

Thanks, in advance, for any comments.  Hope everyone over there is keeping safe!!

 

 

Cam12

Monday 18th May 2020, 08:26PM

Message Board Replies

  • Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

    Below is the civil marriage record which shows the names of the fathers and where they lived. Father of Margaret was Thomas and she lived in Kildorrery. ( I believe Margaret was living in Kildorrery).Simon was from Cashel and his father was James. The civil records are on the free site www.irishgenealogy.ie The marriage date was shown as January 21 1873 and they were married in the RC church in Kildorrery. Ages were not shown on this record (ages are on some records) but Margaret was at least 21 shown by the designation "full". 

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11266/8131632.pdf

    I believe you have the correct baptismal record for Margaret and all the information for Thomas Nash and Margaret Barry is also correct.

    Farahy and Kildorrery are both side by side civil parishes in North Cork with Farahy to the west of Kildorrery. The RC church in Kildorrery serviced both civil parishes and also the inhabitants of four other nearby civil parishes.  Your Ballynoe townland is in Farahy civil parish.

    There are actually 13 different Ballynoe townlands in Co. Cork. The Mary Nash record you located just happened to be in another one of the 13 Ballynoe townlands. You can ignore that record.

    Let me know if you have further questions.

    Roger McDonnell

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Monday 18th May 2020, 09:11PM
  • Roger - thank you so much for your response!

    I was thinking of sending away to get a copy of Simon Armstrong and Margaret Nash's Marriage Certificate, in the hope that it would reveal more details ... so to see the actual Marriage record was great!  I feel a lot more confident knowing that Thomas Nash is identified as Margaret's father and therefore I likely have the correct Nash family in Ballynoe, Co. Cork.  (FYI - Roots Ireland has the wrong month identified for the Marriage ... someone likely just entered JUN instead of JAN in error - I have sent them a short e-mail to let them know). 

    In terms of Simon Armstrong, I had all but given up trying to go back a generation, so to definitely have his father's name, James, is so helpful. Knowing that Simon was already living in Cashel at the time that he married also helps to explains why he and Margaret started their new life together there. As an aside, if I can find any evidence that Margaret's older brother, Thomas Nash, was also working in Cashel PRIOR to Simon's marriage in 1873 ... I may then have a possible explanation of how Margaret and Simon met!

    In terms of earlier Armstrongs, there are 309 Armstrong births listed on Roots Ireland between 1785 - 1911 in County Tipperary, and the only Armstrong births which are identified as taking place specifically in Cashel that this data base shows ... are the two sons born to Simon and Margaret. I suspect that Simon originally came from someplace else ...unless Cashel might fall under another geographic description in some records(?) ....  the question is where?  I will have to focus on James Armstrong for a bit, to see if I can discover anything more.  And knowing that he was a farmer should also help.

    What motivated Simon and Margaret to settle in Clonmel is also unknown. It may have been as simple as Clonmel being a bigger market town (as opposed to having family already there). From the time that he moved to Clonmel, Simon is almost always referred to as a "clerk" (as opposed to a "shopkeeper"), and there is no store which is associated with him in the Clonmel business directories of the time (unlike John Nash in Cashel), so I suspect that Simon likely worked for someone else (as opposed to owning his own shop).  Using the 30 Armstrong Birth/Baptismal records available on Roots Ireland, I roughly recontructed the RC Armstrong families in Clonmel; there was one "Grocer", Patrick Armstrong (who married Mary Wren, and went on to have 11 children) who would be the correct age to have been an Uncle to Simon.  Hard to know if there was any connection!

    Thanks again for your help!  And for mentioning the Ireland Genealogy web site ... and also the insight into all of the Ballynoes.  I may be back with more questions at some point!

     

     

     

    Cam12

    Wednesday 20th May 2020, 12:31AM
  • Hi Cam12

    I read your post with interest as I have Thomas Nash and Margaret Barry on my family tree as very distant relatives. Their grandson Thomas Nash (1871) married Catherine ODonnell who is my great-great aunt. Thomas's brother Patrick married into the Keating family with whom I may have have a DNA connection (but have yet to trace any connection). Thomas Nash was a shopkeeper in Kildorrey in 1912 according to the Census.

    Margaret

    Margaret

    Friday 26th Jun 2020, 03:10AM
  • Hi Cam 12

    I was very interested to come across your research into the Nash family. 

    My great grandmother was Ellen Nash (b. 1835) who you have listed as one of the chilldren of Thomas and Margaret (Barry) Nash

    Ellen married Edmond Hannan in Kildorrery in 1858 and they had 11 children -- all of them migrated to Australia..The eldest Margaret and Daniel arrived here in 1880 as assisted migrants and sponsored their siblings who arrived in the 1880s and 1890s. My grandmother C(K)atherine migrated  with her sister, Ellen in 1880. They all married in Australia, my grandmother marrying James Dwyer and Ellen marrying William Armstrong -- the Armstrong name appears again!!

     

    Lynnlee

    Lynnlee

    Thursday 15th Jul 2021, 06:21AM

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