Do you have the names of his parents /siblings?  Dates of birth can be unreliable so if you have further details please advise and it may be possible to check further.

GKD

Per Ancestry, passport application. A tree suggests Mary Moran as mother.

This birth cert looks promising, Patrick born 16/03/1898 , Ballyconlaght, Headford.

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Sorry just saw the date, will keep checking.

Hi,

A couple of thoughts...The date of birth may be wrong...Irish people at the time were not so aware of their birth dates and didn't celebrate birthdays....The father's name, William, could be wrong; though if Patrick provided the info, one would assume he knew his father's name.

About the fire in the PRO in 1922: Catholic sacramental records were not kept there so were not destroyed. About half of the Church of Ireland records were destroyed.

There are only five Patrick McDonagh/McDonough civil birth records registered in the Galway registration district from 1864-1869 (and actually none in 1869). Civil registration of births commenced in 1864. Only one of the five records showed a father named William but the mother was Lucy and they lived in Galway city. So there are three possibilities, Patrick was born before 1864 (despite what was shown on the Passport record) or his parents failed to register the birth. This was not unusual in the early years of civil registration. The last possibility is that his surname was shown incorrectly and it is under a different name on irishgenealogy.ie   Personal story. My great-grandfather Roger McDonnell.died in 1937. I could not find the civil death record. A relative found the record for me and it was filed under Roger McDonagh. The registrar clerk heard McDonagh when McDonnell was reported. By the way, I looked for any Patrick McDonnell birth records in Galway but there were none.

It may be tedious but look for all Patrick civil birth records in the Galway registration district for 1869. Maybe you will find the record.

With the church baptismal records unavailable for Headford (my research shows there was a church fire in 1890) and no civil record as of now,  I don't know of any other source which would prove your Patrick was in the Headford area before he left Ireland.

Headford is the not the only RC parish without records and as Patricia pointed out many Church of Ireland parishes lost their records in the 1922 fire. There must be an exception process to prove Irish birth for a grandparent. I would contact the Department of Foreign Affairs directly.

Roger McDonnell

1901 census, William spells his name McDonagh, I have checked every conceivable spelling of this name with no result. I agree with MaryTV above that Patrick's mother is likely Mary Moran, I found a list of siblings on Family search as follows 

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Bridget McDonough 1872

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Michael McDonough 1875

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Martin McDonough 1882

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James McDonough 1884

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John McDonough 1886

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William McDonough 1877

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Patrick McDonough 1869

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Thomas McDonough 1873  (Unable to find birth cert)

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Winifred McDonough    1889    (Unable to find birth cert)

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William McDonagh 1877   (Just found cert)

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Winifred McDonagh registered as Winny  1889

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Thank you everyone who has tried to find my GF Patrick Andrew McDonagh/McDonough. His last name was spelled - McDonagh while in Ireland and then it was changed in the US to - McDonough. Some of his siblings (not all) but a few also left for USA and they too changed the spelling to McDonough - so that is why the ones who stayed in Ireland - stayed with McDonagh and the ones that left all changed spelling to McDonough. Odd but that's what happened. Weird...I wish they stayed all McDonagh's to make it easier. Yes, all those records you have shown me are correct. I have the same documents saved to my ancestry.com file. William Francis McDonagh is his father (Wool Weaver) and Mary Collaron Moran is his mother. I have seen the census reports and saw some of his siblings listed in 1901 and 1911. However, I believe my GF left for America in 1885 according to his US Passport Application where he wrote that date down. So naturally I can't catch him on any census reports. He had already left Ireland. I think he was 16. Yes, I did speak with the Headford church St. Mary's and they indicated they lost their records during that church fire. Oh so frustrating. So frustrating also is to see some of his siblings and see that their births were registered but we can't find Patrick the first child. Since he was born in 1869 so close to the 1864 beginning of registrations - maybe his parents did not go to register and put it off. I will never know. I did received today his naturalization papers from the Illinois USA courts for my records which at least is good. It says he came from Ireland and naturalized on 10/11/1900...which agrees with his dates given on his US Passport application. As Roger mentioned - I hope there is some type of exception on rules like mine....when birth and baptismal records are both destroyed in a fire. Gosh...surely I am not the only one this has happened to. Is there no other way to show a young teenage boy from age 0-16 was running around Headford area? Was his school really burnt down next to the church as well? Would he show up on any tax or land records? How do I search those areas...I don't know. On his US Passport application he writes in small lettering he lived (near) Headford, Co. Galway. Does he mean not in the town but just outside of it.?  All his records say - Ballyconlought, Headford, Co. Galway. Which makes sense on the census his Father has addresses of Ballyconlought homes...i.e house 15 in 1901 & house 17 in 1911. However, I did notice that the census had it down as - Ballyconlought (Killursa) Galway. Is that what he means by I lived near Headford on his US Passport application....is Killursa near Headford? Would church records be kept in Killursa/Killower area...I have looked but not hard and not sure how to research that. Anyhow, thank you all so much and if you think of anything or find anything else out for me....please don't hesitate to reach out. I greatly appreciate it. I have all the documentation for his life here in America but the Ireland end is so much harder to prove and I really want to get my dual citizenship. I have been in Ireland and will be back next year in the Fall but would like to come back as a citizen as we would like to retire there in the upcoming years shortly.  I thought I read somewhere that baptismal certs can be recreated by the parish and attached to No trace letters from the GRO as proof. Has anyone heard of this? Here is the section I read on IrishAncestryresearch.com Any thoughts on this? Thanks again - Gayle (McDonough) D. 

The only two birth certs I could not find were those for Thomas and Patrick. All the other children were born in Ballyconlaght, Tuam, Galway,.

Thank you Eileen. Wonder why those 2 can't be found. Yes, I have also seen Tuam in some of my searching. I don't know the area as well as you but wonder if Killursa has something to do with his birth...I have seen that pop up and wonder is that far away from Headford. On the map it doesn't look too far. I also have seen Ower Parish Galway, Ireland in his Mother Mary Moran's profile as her birth area. I wonder if maybe she had Patrick baptized in that area of Ower Parish...her old area where she was born? anything is possible...just not sure what to search at this point. I have been doing this day and night for 2 months looking everywhere. Thanks for your efforts Eileen and all other people that have tried to find Patrick. I did however, visit his homestead last time I was in Ireland and saw where he was raised in those early days.....the parish priest was very helpful and set us up with a visit and tour of the property. Loved it. 

GKD:

Ballyconlought townland is 2.2 miles southwest of Headford. Killursa is 3 miles west of Headford, T

A teenager would not show up on land or tax records.

Killursa likely had a small chapel that was part of the overall parish of Headford. Any marriages or baptisms would have been recorded and held at the main church in Headford,

Roger

Ower is a townland, roughly 1.79 square miles in area. There was no church as this is literally a few fields with small cottages . Tuam was the registration district for births/marriages and deaths in that time, it was the nearest large town and administerative centre .  Killursa and Killower were part of the archdiocese of Tuam, Headford was just a variant name for Killursa and Killower. You must remember life was difficult in this period, extreme poverty, local transport was usually a donkey and cart, with few families who would own a horse (used for ploughing and taking milk to the creamery in later years). Education was not common with small schools and children taken out of school to work on the land at harvesting and sowing, crop planting and gathering. Children were poorly dressed and sadly poorly fed unless the family had their own cow/goat and a small plot of land to cultivate. Families were large and the death rate was high , these were the years just after the famine when the population was decimated and emigration was rife. There was no electricity, life was simple, really about surviving and communities supported each other with their culture in lamplit cottages. It is against this backdrop that your family lived out their lives, how proud you must be of them. I am really sorry that I did not find Patrick or Thomas and I hope you can find a way to validate their place in your family, don't give up and I wish you all the best.

Thank you Roger & Eileen for all your valuable insight on the lifestyles and times back in those early days after the famine. It was truly an awful time in history. I have a clear picture now in my head of my grandfather in Headford, Galway probably helping out as much as he can during those early days he was there. I wonder how they could afford or wonder how he got on a ship. Was he by himself or with a sibling? So many unanswered questions in my mind. Thank you for trying to find him - I greatly appreciate it. Roger mentioned going directly to the Dept of Foreign Affairs to see what if anything they could do as far as an exception. I will see if I can find that somewhere on the internet to contact. If you know of any links to steer me toward...please feel free to send me a link. I want to thank all the kind people that responded to my original request for a research and thank each and every one of you. THANK YOU Eileen, Mary, Roger & Patricia and anyone else I missed to address. Back to searching. Hope you have a good weekend. Go raibh maith agat. Thank you once again. Just another McDonough loving my Irish roots. 

Could this be your William's death cert?

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Also this cert, wondered if it was your James..

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Hi Eileen, Yes the first record is my Great Grandfather- William McDonagh's death record. I do have this same copy saved. He was 98 when he died and that is his date of death. That is his son John at his side when he passed. My Grandfather Patrick was most likely still in US at the time of his father's death living in St. Louis Mo. Although I show Patrick on ships going back and forth to see his aging parents from time to time. It is so frustrating not being able to see Patrick anywhere in his first 16 years of life on Ireland prior to moving to US. I wonder - will the court take that into consideration....when looking at my dual citizenship paperwork - seeing Patrick go back and forth from US to Ireland to see his parents and siblings? All the USA records how he is from Ireland...I hope they can make an exception for me not being able to find actual birth record or baptismal record on him that wasn't destroyed in the fires of the record center and Headford church fire as well. I feel so discouraged. 

However, the 2nd cert is NOT sadly my Grandfather Patrick Andrew McDonagh as he passed away in St. Louis, Mo on Jan 10, 1937 in the presence of my uncle William at that time. 

Thank you so very much for continuing to look around for me. I am not sure which way to go at this point. If it weren't for the fact I want so badly to get my dual citizenship...I would just move on...but I hope to talk to my immigration specialist or someone who knows the courts and if they will consider an exception if I can prove just about everything else he did in his life. 

I remember what you said about - Ireland being so poor during those days and wondering did Patrick ever even go to school near Headford prior to living in 1885? I was told that school near the Headford church fire was also burnt down....naturally....ugh. Someone must know if they had any records if so....did they in fact get destroyed? What school name was it? The parish secretary for Headford Church - St. Mary's didn't recall the name. I might have to call and chat with the Father/Priest on his thoughts. As a first child...did they keep him home to help farm as you mentioned? Maybe I can locate a record of him going to school on the US side as a teenager that might give me something on his education. Ok back to searching. If you have any other clues....thank you. I greatly appreciate anything you can think of. I also found his mother Mary Moran's death cert. I wonder would these help in anyway for my case. Hum. thanks again...Eileen.   Gayle

Eileen, I just realized the last photo you took might have been the death cert on James McDonagh - Patrick's brother.  Just wanted to thank you...I know it still isn't finding Patrick...but I think that is his brother. I will check further. Thank you.

GKD,

The townland of Ballyconlought is in the civil parish of Cargin, which is in the church parish of Killursa (Headford). Unfortunately, this isn't much help because, as you know, the records were lost. Like others, I couldn't find a record for Andrew. I couldn't find a record for the marriage of William and Mary either. According to the 1911 census, William and Mary were married for 45 years, indicating that they were married in 1866, which is within the timeframe of civil registration of marriages.  However, I couldn't find any record from around that time.

There is a school in Cargin called Clydagh National School (http://clydagh.carginsoft.com/). This may be the school attended by children from Ballyconlought? The school roll books for schools in the area are not with the National Archives. If they exist, the roll books would be in the school. You could contact the school to see if they exist, and if they exist then you could look for Andrew and his siblings. However, I'm not sure that school rolls would be much benefit in your case. Generally, only the father's name is given, so any Andrew with father William could be a coincidence. There are alot of McDonagh families in Ballyconlought - 6 in the 1901 census. 

Have you considered a DNA test to show your connection with Andrew's siblings? This may catty some weight along with the records from America.

Best wishes, Kieran

Hello Kieran, Thank you so very much for looking at my situation. I will try to find that school and do some investigating with that. You mentioned you were looking for Andrew.  Did you also happen to look under his first name PATRICK A. I tried various names for the first name and last name spelling as well. My grandfather in Ireland use to spelling in last name - McDonagh but when he arrived in US in changed the spelling to McDonough. Odd.  I went onto my ancestry page...I did a DNA test about a year ago - and I did see this - 
ThruLines^® uses Ancestry^® trees to suggest that you may be related to 4 DNA matches through Patrick Andrew (McDonagh) McDonough.  So it does show my son, myself, my Dad, my Irish Grandfather in a line....along with 3 other nieces that took the DNA test as well matching with Patrick A. McDonough.  Not sure how to print out anything to show a direct match. Do I just show a link to prove I am connect to my grandfather? Do the court systems in Ireland accept the DNA results?  Being born so long ago 1869 with no DNA for him at that time to have been taken how would I go about proving a connection? All his siblings are also passed, my father passed in 1985. 

The only place I have found my grandfather Patrick A. McDonagh was at age 15 in a church in Killursa parish/district as Godfather to his little baby brother James McDonagh. It shows at James McDonagh's baptism that his parents William & Mary were there, his sister Godmom/sponsor Mary McDonagh was there and then my grandfather who is listed as the Godfather/sponsor - Patrick was there. He would have been age 15 at that time. Patrick left for USA the following year at age 16 in 1885. This baptism of his baby brother was 1884. So 5 McDonagh's in the same room at the same time....found on www.rootsireland.ie - however, I know the courts probably want to see my Grandfather's baptismal cert....but can't they see he at least existed and was in that church with his family for that event.

I think his records were in that 1890 Headford church fire per the Father at that church. I have contacted them. However, I did noticed that his Mother Mary Moran McDonagh grew up in - see below. Would she have perhaps given birth in that area in 1869 - this Ower Parish area? Is that a separate church area....I don't know naturally how the parishes work. Of the 10 kids she had....only the first 2 children had birth certificates that can't be found. Patrick (my GF) was child # 1 and child # 2 was brother Thomas. Perhaps she had the first 2 kids at a different parish for baptisms?

This is so frustrating knowing my GF existed but hard to prove his whereabouts in those first 16 years of his life if records are destroyed in a fire at the GRO office and church records got destroyed as well. I was told the parish school in Headford also was destroyed by the Black and Tans by the parish secretary at St. Mary's Headford church.  I am guessing Patrick's Mother probably in 1869 had birth at home....not in a hospital would that be correct? The company I am working with to help me get my citizenship says...go look for a hospital. Yikes...does Headford or surrounding areas have one? I can't seem to find one. 

Let me know if you have any other thoughts Kieran...thanks for trying...it is greatly appreciated. I wonder if they would somehow use the Great Grandfather/Great Grandmother to help add to my case....using some of their documents. 

Gayle

Mary Collaron Moran

1845–1924

BIRTH 14 AUG 1845 • Ower Parish, Galway, Ireland

DEATH 8 FEB 1924 • Ballyconlought, Cargin, Galway, Ireland

great-grandmother  Add MyTreeTags™

Gayle,

Could you send an email to kjordan@irelandxo.com, please, so that we can communicate off the public forum with some things?

Best wishes, Kieran