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O'Shea family Lishenpower / Russell Family Clonmel

Hello,

I have several questions not necessarily related to documentattion and would appreciate any insight on a few items which seem like mysteries.

I have been researching my Great grandfather's family. He was Patrick O'Shea bapt 27 Jul 1870 Lodge parents Henry Shea and Bridget Maher (Frehans) Married 10 Feb 1859 and had 14 siblings. Shortly after Patrick's birth it appears they moved to Henry's father James home in Lisheenpower. According to the Griffiths valuations it appears to be a neighboring farm. I have not been able to determine what they farmed. Animals, Food or crops for animals. Farm is still in existance in same family. Can you advise how I would address a letter to the family if that would be appropriate?

I am wondering how I can search land records to see when the farms were purchased. I remember reading that when the owner of Cahir Castle went bankrupt that many of the tenants purchased their farms but I have lost those notes.

James O'Shea, Bridget & Henry O'Shea and James  Maher are buried at Ballybacon cathloic Church Graveyard and have pictures of the stones and transcriptions. Are memorial stones or gravestones always marking where the person is buried? I ask this as sometimes when they say "In memory of" to me that means they may be buried elsewhere but this is the place of memorialization?

Patrick moved to Clonmel by 1900 and in 1901 he opened a pub at 76 Joyces Lane in Irishtown with a partner or co owner J Belshaw who appears to also own a grocers across the street. He marries Esther Eliz. Mulcahy Russell in Jan 1902 and my great aunt is born in Nov of 1902. She is bapt Bridget but is called Margaret. Patrick appears in cort several times according to Find my Past. One notable for opening the pub on a Sunday. The others for nonpayment of burough taxes as well as non payment for the gas to run the taps.

He moves to Peabody Mass USA in June of 1904, Esther, Bridget and Margaret Russell join him in Oct of 1904. I found a shipping list for all of them Esther is on two and it appears she doesn't make the first ship The Republic where it is noted she has $25. The following week she sails on The Cymric and has $65.00. He told my mother he owned both a pub and a farm but could never go home again and exhibited fear when saying this. My mother found a letter and my grandmother destroyed it telling my mother she was afraid they would take her father away. I cannot find anything that terrifing. Can you help me with this?

I can also not find any evidence of him owning a farm in Clonmel.

This is my first post so my apologies if I am doing this incorrectly. The post I have seen have requests where little is known. I do have records mostly through Roots Ireland.

Thank you,

Ryann Flynn

 

RFlynn

Tuesday 7th April 2020, 07:58PM

Message Board Replies

  • Hi ,I am granddaughter of William O Shea who was Patrick's youngest brother.Patricia Fitzgerald.

    Friday 15th May 2020, 09:06PM
  • Sorry, should give more detail .I was born in Lisheenpower,Ardfinnan.There was two adjoining farms,William inherited the adjoining farms from an uncle I understand,which is where I grew up.My father was Harry O Shea nephew of Patrick,he often spoke of uncle who owned pub in Clonmel and another Uncle Pierce lived there with him and he died due to tonsillitis,he said Patrick was so disheartened after this emigrated to America.I don't know how much truth in this but there was a Pierce.They had three sisters Ellen emigrated to Australia.We had some contact from her granddaughter some years ago.There is just one of my father's brother still living John,he is 91 now,he is closest living relative of Patrick his nephew.Should you wish any further information , please feel free to contact me.Phone 087 9719192.
    email fitzgerald1689@gmail.com.Regards Patricia Fitzgerald (nee O Shea).

    Friday 15th May 2020, 10:18PM
  • I am stunned and thrilled to have a reply from family! I will share this information with my mother, Patrick's grand daugher who just turned 85 last month. I was planning on being there this past April but due to covid 19 of course couldn't travel. As it's said all things happen for a reason. I will be in touch via email in the next few days. Mine is ryancflynn@aol.com and phone 978-546-7120.

    RFlynn

    Saturday 16th May 2020, 08:33PM
  • Hi,Great to hear from you.How many in family did Patrick have? My aunt Nonie,my father's sister,who is deseased, had at some stage contact with either a daughter or grandaughter of his.We also have a wedding photo which I believe is of one of his daughters.Nonies daughter Maura did a family tree some years ago following her mother's death and it shows birth dates of all 14 children of Henry and Bridget.The headstone you mention is in Ballybacon church and it's where my parents grandparents and great grandparents area intered,also buried there are Robert,Patrick's brother and his family.Robert inherited the farm and had one daughter,Biddy who married a Phelan and her son Eamon now lives and farms the land there.Please feel free to ask any questions and will answer to best of my ability.My regards to your mother.Patricia Fitzgerald.

    Saturday 16th May 2020, 11:38PM
  • Patrick had five children. The eldest Margaret (who was bapt Bridget) was born in clonmel in Nov of 1903. She returned to Ireland twice. Once I believe in the 1950's and also the 1970's. I know she had contact with the family but not sure with whom. Her married name was Minigell and her husband was a candy salesman. All the children grew up in Salem Mass. Harry was next, then my Grandmother Alice, followed by Elizabeth and then Tom. Margaret did not have children. Alice had three and my mother is the only living. Elizabeth, called Betty, had two children and they are still alive. Tom had a step daughter and I believe one child. I do not know if Harry had children.

    I talked to my mother a bit earlier and she can't believe we have connected! She did not know of pierce but I had him on my tree. I have been trying to find her grandparents documentation for several years and gave up with Ancestry. Then last summer Roots Ireland posted on facebook they had a million or so new records for Tipperary and Waterford. Seemed worth a try it so I joined and found Patrick and Esther. The marriage record had enough to figure out the rest. I went back to Ancestry to log in the records and there was a message from 2015 from a Russell relative. Funny how it all works out.

    I askled her to write a letter with information of her memories of Patrick's children. I thought that would be most accurate and am hoping to provide that to you. I have been lucky to travel to  Ireland a few times but the April trip would have been the family roots tour. My dad's family is from Ballybricken Waterford and Cork City. And apparantly have just found my mom's father who had roots in Nova Scotia also in NI. Kind of overwhelmed with everything and things coming together this weekend.

    We will have lots of questions and grateful to have someone to ask! Please feel free to ask anything of us as well.

    Patrick also remained a farmer. Estheer decided she didn't want to live on a farm in Peabody so they did move to the city of Salem where she could countinue her dressmaking career. Patrick kept chickens and moved them to the basement during the winters and she hated that! Hated the smell and was upset if anyone ever opened that door to the chickens! Reminds me of "waking ned devine" and the smell of the pigs comments. Just makes me laugh. I have a few picres I will get together for you. I should also have one of Margaret about the age she went to Ireland in the 1970's.

    Patrcia, I can't thank you enopugh for responding!

    Ryann

    RFlynn

    Sunday 17th May 2020, 01:27AM
  • Thanks for that Ryan.
    Patricia

    Sunday 17th May 2020, 11:21PM
  • Hi Patricia,

    I sent an email a week or so ago and am curious if you received it? My mom has written a letter to John and she is wondering the best way to send it? If you did receive my email there are two corrections. Harry died in 1983 and was buried at Bourne National Cemetery. Tom did have a son who is still living and is the only O'Shea to carry on the name in Patrick's line.

    An earlier picture of Tom and his wife is attached.

    Hope you are well and Ireland's reopening is going smoothly. Such crazy times!

    Ryann

    ryancflynn@aol.com

     

    RFlynn

    Tuesday 26th May 2020, 05:44PM

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