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Hi, I was wondering if has a rafferty who may have been a raftis or rafter?  I have someone who I think is related to my Gorman line that was raftis in Kilkenny but rafferty in Massachusetts.   Any thoughts are appreciated. 
 Thanks, Mary
 

 

 

 

marysunnyside

Monday 15th Jun 2020, 07:47PM

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  • According to MacLysaght's Surnames of Ireland, Raftiss would be a different name from Rafferty.  Here's what he says about the names:

    There were two separate Irish surnames which have often been treated as interchangeable:  (i) Ó Raithbheartaigh (modern form Ó Raifeartaigh), from the Irish rath bheartach, meaning "prosperity wielder"; and (ii) Ó Robhartaigh, from the Irish robharta, meaning "full tide", which was originally anglicized as O'Roarty.  MacLysaght says that the two names merged as O'Rafferty for the most part as far back as the 15th century, but that the [O']Roarty form is still found in some places in County Donegal, while the O'Rafferty forrm is common in Tyrone and Louth.  There is also a separate surname, Ó Reachtabhra (modern form Ó Reachtaire), from the Irish reacht, meaning "decree", which is normally anglicized as O'Raftery. That name is found primarily in County Mayo, although I think the Rafferty and Raftery forms have sometimes gotten confused in places outside Ireland.

    The surname Raftiss had a different origin, although its linguistic derivation is similar to that of the name Raftery.  The Irish original was Ó Reachtabhair, once again from the Irish word reacht, but it became Raftiss because of the sibilant way that the letter "r" at the end (a "slender 'r' ") was pronounced in Kilkenny in the past (which is where the name originated).  The Leinster dialect of Irish which had that pronunciation is now extinct, but the name's pronunciation had taken hold before then.

    So, if you know which county was home to your ancestors, you should be able to figure out which of those names they had originally.

     

     

    kevin45sfl

    Tuesday 16th Jun 2020, 06:57PM
  • Thanks, for all the information. It is very helpful. We thought Anne might be from Galway, I now believe they she was from Kilkenny, probably Thomastown. 
    Mary

    marysunnyside

    Wednesday 17th Jun 2020, 12:48PM
  • marysunnyside, Yes the Gorman line & Raftis are connected. Kevin's answer is brilliant but you could also be correct with your 'Rafferty' connection to 'Raftis'. In Canada and the USA both used Raftis/Raftice & Raftus more or less interchangeably. 'Rafter' was less common and I think originated mostly as a spelling/translation confusion. Rafferty is a point of discussion in the John Thomas Raftis book but he concluded this was most likely an error, as I did, that is, up to reading your post. The 1968 Raftis book speaks of a 1850s or early 1860s Janesville family of brothers named 'Rafferty' who claimed they were related to the Wisconsin Raftis family. The Raftis family were suspicious of the Rafferty boys who had insisted they should change their names to 'Rafferty'. The Raftis family had just staked off a piece of land in Janesville and thought this may be a land grab plot. This story was from a descendant's letter dated 1933. My database would possibly have more information but I require the Christian names of your Rafferty and Gorman ancestors.

    Monday 16th Jan 2023, 12:04AM
  • Thanks for the response. I have Anne Raftis, born 9/1/1867 to a Michael Raftis and Judith (Judy) Bryan. It think she is the same Anne who arrived in Massachusetts in 1890 as Anne Rafter and became Anne Rafferty when she married Patrick Dineen in 1893 in Massachusetts. If I’m correct her father Michael Raftis, baptized 1/7/1845, is the child of Richard Raftis and Anne Gorman. My connection to Gorman is my 2g-grandmother Catherine Gorman, who married Patrick Dalton around 1840. My great grandfather James Dalton is their son. I assume Catherine and Anne Gorman were sisters or close cousins based on several dna matches. So basically I think she was Raftis in Kilkenny, Rafter on a passenger list and Rafferty on a marriage record. Maybe a stretch, but the dna connections seem to work. Thanks again, Mary

    marysunnyside

    Monday 16th Jan 2023, 03:41PM
  • Marysunnyside,

    I am so glad to read your info on the connection to the Raftis/Gorman line.  I have been totally confused with which of the 7 sons of James Raftis 1730 & Mary Eleanore 1729 is the father of Richard (Dick) Raftis who married Anne Gorman?

    I am uncertain if I can follow this conversation automatically but feel free to contact me directly laftree@protonmail.com.  I research all Raftis lines and I am happy to hear from other researchers

    Thursday 8th Jun 2023, 07:30PM

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