Re: Louth /Monaghan connection for Ward family

Local volunteer contacted.

Bill we are in uncharted terriority as the records available are only church records and not all parishes have records going back that far, so you may find records for people of the names you want in certain parishes but the ones you want may not exist or been located yet.

I see a Hugh Connor born to a James Connor and Margaret Ward in Bolies, Kilsaran in Louth in 1813, all the areas you mention are in the general area of Ardee but not necessarily that close, ie maybe 10 or 15 miles away. Louth is not a big county and hardly more than 15 miles across at most. There is no way of confirming we are correct. He appears to have been the oldest, there were twin girls in 1815 and children onto at least 1822, there are also two other Connor / Ward children to a different Christian names of parents in adjoining parishes. If my memory is correct there were queries on these Wards previously and it might be worth searching the site for the queries under Louth for info.

I have been unable to locate his marriage ot Mary Nany which could be McEnany or possible McNally or Nally, have looked for marriages in Ireland and UK and none jump out, there are only 9 records in Ireland for a Hugh Connor in the period 1831 to 1851, there is one in Armagh parish of Kilmore but wife is Mary Green. Other dates do not really fit or are too far away and still not Nany or similiar. Were there children in the 1851 census to maybe isolate an approximate year of marriage. Did you get any info from the 1871 census (I understand the 1861 census was destroyed as there were a lot of health questions). 

The areas you mention are near Ardee but Nobber is west of Ardee in Meath, Cruisetown is in Louth on the coast east of Dunleer, you can see the civil divisions, religious parishes may be slightly different or have different names. https://www.townlands.ie/ 

There are a lot of Margaret Ward baptisms mainly in Meath and Louth, see the baptisms with mother Catty King but no Margaret, if we go by the Bolies birth for Hugh I see a few Margaret Wards born in adjoining parishes from 1770 to 1830, one has a mother McKenna, others in the list had a sponsor McEnany also, it is really not possible to isolate the correct one in my view Bill, even if we locate Hughs marriage it is unlikely the fathers name will be recorded but if he got married in England it may be as civil regisration was introduced earlier than the 1864 here.

There is a site here on Louth and if you see an interesting death record I may be able to locate the transcription, there is a lot more being transcribed and going online also. 

http://www.jbhall.clahs.ie/ There is also a Facebook page on Louth Genealogy with some DNA matching on it but not a lot, other counties have projects on areas and names, there is also an Ardee History and a mid Louth History page, all closed groups so apply to join, they do not do genealogy so mainly photos etc

Was there any unusual Christian names in the family that might match some of the families we found, unfortunately though most Irish names are common, Margaret; Mary; Pat; James etc

Regards

Pat

The following Connors lived in Kilsaran at the time of the Tithe Applotments:

Connor James Willianstown and Bolis Kilsaran Louth 1829
Connor Andrew Willianstown and Bolis Kilsaran Louth 1829
Connor Hugh Willianstown and Bolis Kilsaran Louth 1829
Connor Martin Milestown Kilsaran Louth 1829

I hope this helps.

The following Connors were living in Louth in 1796 (from Flax Growers List). Some were from Kilsaran.

*Connor Bryan, Kilsarn, 1

*Connor James, Kilsarn, 1

Connor John, Clenmore, 1

Connor John, Stobannon, 1

Connor John, Drumcar, 1

Connor Joseph, Termenfecken, 3

Connor Laurence, Phillipstown, 1

*Connor Martin, Kilsarn, 3

Connor Nicholas, Hainstown, 2

Connor Patrick, Mosstown, 1

Connor Patrick, Phillipstown, 1

Connor Peter, Louth, 1

Connor Thomas, Parsonstown, 1

Connor William, Louth, 1

Connor William, Mullery, 1

Connor William, Mullery, 1

Connor William, Dromin, 1

First of all let me thank you for your involvement and response. I know how difficult it is to get anywhere with Irish Ancestry when yo have such little data to go on.

One bit of Info I may have missed is that Mary Mananys father was Bryan. I know that as it appeared on her marriage cert. when she married a Michael Dooley in 1883 after Hugh had died in 1881

Re: The census data, in 1851 they were living with a Michael McMahon and his wife Mary, in Stockton, Durham, . They were described as ‘cousins’. Michael came from Monaghan.Hugh and Mary had 2 children, Margaret aged 4 and John 6 mths. Interesting that Margaret is the name as it would tie in with Margaret Ward being her grandmother, but that could be coincidence.

In 1861 they were living in Shadworth, Durham and Hugh was working in the coal mines. They now had 4 children, with the addition of William ( my great grandfather) and Thomas. The census has their surname as O’Connor.

In 1871 they were living in Spennymoor, Durham. Margaret had married a Philip Flanagan in 1862. She was only 16 but the certificate says she was of marriageable age.

My closest Irish DNA connection has a number of McKenna’s on her tree. One being a Margaret b1803 in Monaghan according to her, and she married a Bernard Ward in  Carrickmacross , Monaghan. Under tenuous possible connection with the Ward family.

I am also trying to upload a photo of the gravestone she sent me. I hope it works. Sorry for bombarding you but it is great to have someone who knows Irish ancestry, which is a minefield to me.

Bill Birchall

Hi Bill, I will have to read myself back into this again but I found a birth of a Mary McNanny and looked at the entry and it appears to be McNanny too, but found no other children, Oct 1814 first entry on Registers NLI website for Drumconrath (sometimes Drumcondra) this is slightly south of Ardee and to the west, borders Louth and Monaghan, the parish of Drumcondath that is, it Meath. 

Name:  Mary MacNanny      Date of Baptism:      06-Oct-1814

Parish:  Drumconrath, Co. Meath

Father: Bryan MacNanny      Mother: Margret Rielly

Informant 1:       Edward Rielly

Informant 2:       Cathrine Brady

See no other children to this couple but the spellings may be the issue, also the census probably means the are cousins to the head of house, however we have to be concious of the person filling out the census may be the census taker as there was a high level of illiteracy then.

Regards

Pat

Hi Pat,

Thanks for that. I had seen it before, but discounted it because I thought that the birthdate was too early. I have not been able to find a marriage for Mary and Hugh. I have got a birth certificate for Margaret their daughter and that has Hugh Connor as the father but a Mary Burge for the mother. As they were both illiterate, it is little wonder that dates and names get misspelled in the records. Someone else researching the McNany family has a Michael as Mary's brother but I can find nothing on him other than the English census records. Another point that might be relevant, is that a Bridget McNany was a witness at Mary's  marriage to Michael Dooley.

Thanks for your help

Bill

Bill, we appear to be chasing the same records, I see a Bryan McNanny married a Rose Clark in Drumconrath in 1812 but no other marriage to suit, also my previous mention of Cruisetonw in Louth is obviously incorrect as I see it is a variant parish name for Nobber parish.

I looked at the entries in the Tithe Applottments for both Drumcondra (spelling used) and Nobber and see 1 Reilly family in Drumcondra and 3 Ward families. There are no McEneany or similiar, this however is only those liable for the tax, owners of land one acre and up I think (owner includes tenants) so no house workers or labourers etc so not definitive. 

I searched in Louth; Monaghan and Meath for births and marriages, did not look for Connor in Meath though, it is odd to find another Bryan McNanny but possibly a cousin, 

On chance I looked at the 1901 census but no joy there with the names. The Tithes are here in case you have not found them previously, 

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp 

We are running out of options unless there is something to show people from the area migrated to Durham from specific locations, this did occur, followed friends or family or the the church may have arranged it.

Regards

Pat

Thanks Pat,

Regarding following friends or relatives to Co. Durham in England. As I mentioned earlier, they were lodging with their 'cousins' the McMahons according to the 1851 English Census. Another name on there, lodging as cousin was called Gallagher. I do not think that they stumbled across these people and must have known, where to find them before they came out to England from Ireland. I have been unable to find any evidence of their living in England in the 1841 Census. as they had their first child Margaret in 1846, they seem to have emigrated between 1841 and 1846. I am not sure that this helps, but thought that I would restate it. 

Regarding the Wards, I do have a definite DNA connection and his Wards come from Ardee. Did you get my photo of the gravestone, mentioning McEneany?

Thanks for your help.

Bill

Bill, it is tricky to go on from here as using the DNA we are trying to fit marriages to theories, that said I was researching another query in Tallenstown or Tallenstown, borders Monaghan and Meath and Ardee and see a few McNeny names there too.

I looked at your gravestone and searched for the birth of a Peter Ward but while I found a lot of them none had a mother McEneney or similiar, also looked at the marriages for Ward across Monaghan, Meath and Louth from 1770 but nothing jumps out, did not look at them all(Gallagher and McEneany, no Gallagher Ward marriages) and also many may have missing records.

Two marriages that did come up are 

Jan-1841                              

Parish:  Donaghmoyne  Co. Monaghan

Name:  Bernard                McEneaney                       Mary     Ward

Address:              Donaghmoyne                  Donaghmoyne

Date of Marriage: 14-Apr-1836                   

Parish:  LOUTH  Co. Louth

Husband                                              Wife

Name:  Michael   Ward                    Anne     Mceneany

Found no Ward / Gallagher marriages, 

I did find about 5 McEneany and similar births in Louth, one had a mother Morgan in 1823 I think

On the gravestone I searched the free Irish Genealogy site for a civil birth of the Peter Ward and while there are many in the various possible districts including Carickmacross there was no McEneany mother, I found a Michael Ward and Bridgit McGinn marriage in 1886 in Carrickmacross., however I can see no children born to this couple in the three counties.

The death on the headstone of Peter Ward, the cert for this can be got my email the GRO, link on this site, cost €4 as you want a copy of the entry and not a full legal cert at €20, this may have someone as notifier and his age, so we could find his birth, births free online until 1921, deaths until 1971 and marriages until 1941. 

Knowing when they emigrated assist in that we would not search for children after that but as it was all a common area at the time there will be no travel records etc, still the same today but think people are recorded for security purposes.

I am using Roots Ireland which is subscription but can be easier to navigate as allows county only searching etc and sometimes has BMDs not found elsewhere but on one occassion I found info on Ancestry that was not there, also as you have done DNA have your tried uploading to My Heritage as it was the first company offering the service in these parts, ie Europe and has matches for me that I have not got on Ancestry, also I see you are on Louth FB genealogy and notice some Wards have left Gedmatches there.

Regards

Pat