Seeking information on Martin Ferrell and Mary Jane Bell

Jenny,

Here’s the death for Martin (Farrell, rather than Ferrell):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1879/06531/4882133.pdf

Informant was son John. Here’s the death for Martin’s wife Mary Jane. Informant was son William. Both deaths at 63 Dundee St, Belfast.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1887/06207/4775787.pdf

Mary Jane died in August and John emigrated in September so it looks like both his parents being dead was the trigger that let/persuaded him to emigrate.

There are 13 trees on Ancestry with this family. One (the Ferrel tree) lists the parents as marrying in Belfast in 1842. Children Agnes 1845, Catherine 1851,  James 1852, John 1855, William 1863,  & David 1866.

Statutory birth registration started in Ireland in 1864 so the only child with a birth certificate will be David. Here’s his birth on 26.1.1866 in Dundrod. That’s about 15 miles from Belfast, near today’s Belfast International Airport:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03546/2305259.pdf

If you are looking for general information about the family I’d suggest you contact the 13 tree owners as they should be able to assist considerably. If you have any further questions, feel free to come back to this board for advice.

The spelling of the surname in the records I viewed is Farell/Farrell but spelling varied all the time and it’s wise to keep an open mind. Exact spelling wasn’t something folk bothered about in Ireland in the 1800s. (I note that Martin signed with a cross in 1866 when registering his son’s birth. So he couldn’t read or write and the spelling would therefore be down to the Registrar. Different Registrars, priests and clerks might spell the same name in different ways).

Hi Elwyn

Thank you so much for these clues.  I am on ancestry and will take a deeper look.  I am keen to know who Martin's Parents were.  I never met John but we knew a little bit about him from my father.  Funny how families sometimes do not talk about their ancestors.

Again thank you.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Jenny,

None of the Ancestry trees has Martin’s parents and I’d say it may prove pretty hard to find out who they were.

There’s no sign of a Martin Farrell baptism in Belfast RC records  around 1828.  Two reasons why that might be. First, one of the 2 main churches at that time - St Mary’s (the oldest RC church in Belfast) -  doesn’t have any records for that period. They were either never kept or have been lost. Alternative reason for not finding him is that Martin wasn’t born in Belfast. Population of Belfast increased from 20,000 in 1800 to 350,000 in 1901. People poured in from the surrounding countryside all through that century looking for work in the new shipyards, linen mills and related industries. (In the 1770s when St Mary’s opened there were only about 300 Catholics in Belfast, by 1901 there were 150,000. So a huge influx). But if you don't know where he came from it’s going to be nigh on impossible to trace his parents.

Hmmm interesting.  John Ferrel was born in Antrim would that be a clue?

What denomination was Martin? I have assumed so far he was Catholic because the vast majority of people named Farrell in the 1901 Antrim census are RC (There are no Ferrells at all. They all seem to have settled on Farrell by 1901). However there are some Methodists, Presbyterians & Church of Ireland. John’s marriage to Maria Lammie in 1880 was Church of Ireland, though since tradition was to marry in the bride’s church it really only tells me she was likely to be that denomination. It doesn’t tell me what his was. I found clues suggesting the Farrell family may have been either Presbyterian or Church of Ireland. Here’s Catherine’s marriage to Thomas McBride and it was in Agnes St Presbyterian, Belfast. Witnesses were John Farrell & Margaret Farrell (who was she, I wonder?).

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11079/8054241.pdf

Here’s Agnes’s marriage to James Graham in Lower Falls, Belfast, Church of Ireland. (Witness was Margaret Farrell again). So 1 daughter married in a Presbyterian church and another in the Church of Ireland. Take your pick.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

It’s quite important to find the precise denomination because, prior to 1864 it makes a big difference to what records may be available, and where they are kept.

The Ulster Historical Foundation and rootsireland appear to have baptisms for Mary Jane Farrell 1855, Catherine 1858 & William 1861 (to parents Martin Farrell & Mary Bell). I don’t have a subscription to either site but you might want to look at those records.  Knowing where the baptisms took place and the precise denomination could help a bit.

The only clue we have so far is David’s birth in Dundrod in 1866. If that’s where the family came from and if they were Presbyterian, then Dundrod Presbyterian church has records from 1829. They are not on-line but there is a copy in PRONI. If they were Church of Ireland they probably attended Glenavy church. It has records from 1707 onwards. Again there’s a copy in PRONI. They might be on-line on rootsireland. (My guide to church of Ireland records says that site has some coverage for Glenavy. In other words they don't have all years records).

I looked in Griffiths Valuation (1862) and I do see Martin Farrell listed in Dundrod townland. He had plot 2Bb which was a labourer’s cottage on Robert Pott’s farm. (Modern Carnaghliss Rd). The cottage is not inhabited any more though it looks from Google Earth as though it might still be standing. There’s some sort of small building there anyway near a clump of trees. About a quarter of a mile from Dundrod Presbyterian church.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameS…

The Valuation revision records take Griffiths forward and are available on the PRONI website. They show Martin’s name against that property till 1876. So possibly Martin & Mary Jane only moved to Belfast around that year, even if some of their children had moved in earlier?

Dear Elwyn

Thank you so very much for all you are doing.  I have a elderly family member here in NZ who has extensive information about the Ferrel family so I have written to him to ask if he knows which faith Martin was.

The name changed to Ferrel with John I think.  When he went to Australia it was Ferrel. Interesting how things change over time.  I will come back to you if I know which faith Martin was.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Jenny,

I know folk get very attached to a particular spelling of a name. All I can tell you is that the idea of a single or correct spelling for a surname or a place name in Ireland is very much a recent phenomenon designed to meet the needs of modern officialdom. Before that there was no consistency. Names were spelled phonetically and each variation was down to the whim of the particular person recording the information. You will often see the spelling change as the records go back. This rarely indicates a deliberate decision to alter the name, nor even a mistake. Not everyone was literate, but even when they were, exact and consistent spelling simply wasn’t something they bothered about. In addition to varying the actual spelling, O’ or Mac prefixes were optional and were often omitted. 

In 1899, the Rev Smith reviewed the early records of Antrim 1st Presbyterian church (covering the years 1674 to c 1736). He noted: “Even the same word is not always spelled alike by the same hand. Indeed spelling with most of the recording officials (and they must have been fairly numerous) was a matter of the most sublime indifference. The name William, for instance, is spelled 3 different ways in as many lines; while Donegore, a neighbouring parish, is spelled 10 different ways; but these extend over a good number of years. Many families names are spelled phonetically, while others are given in the most round-about fashion”.

So expect spelling to vary. That was the norm.

Good Morning Elwyn

I have heard back from my family in regards to Martins faith. Martin was church of Ireland.

Kind Regards

Jenny

Jenny,

In that case I’d be inclined to either take out a subscription to rootsireland and see if Martin and his children’s baptisms are in their records. Or you go to PRONI to look at the Glenavy Church of Ireland records in PRONI which, as I mentioned before, start in 1707. If you are unable to go yourself, you could employ a researcher. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net