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My Great Grandfather, Daniel Bernard Sullivan was born in Angram (Drimoleague) in 1879.  He emigrated to the USA with his parents, Michael and Catherine (Casey) Sullivan in 1881.  They settled in North Brookfield, Massachusetts, where Catherine died shortly thereafter.  It appears that Michael Sullivan's parents, Andrew and Catherine (Brien) Sullivan also emigrated to North Brookfield, Massachusetts where they are buried in the family plot along with Michael, Catherine, Michael's daughter Katherine, and Michael's brothers Andrew and Daniel.  Daniel B Sullivan married Helen Dunn in Northampton, Massachusetts.  Angram, part of Drimoleague appears to be the location of the family farm where most of Andrew and Catherine's children were born.  Andrew and Catherine were married in Drimoleague on 05 Feb 1837, by JD Creedon, and witnessed by James Sullivan and Denis Brien.  The relationships of James and Denis to the couple are unknown.  Records of Andrew (1810?) and Catherien Brien's (1813) births have not been found at this point.  I'm not sure where birth or baptisimal records, if any, can be found for that period.  Drimoleague records don't date back that far.  Where local residents worshipped during that period, and where records might be found is the big question.  Any help would be appreciated.

Kevin Schmitt

kws2311

Sunday 22nd August 2021, 10:36AM

Message Board Replies

  • Hello Kevin,

    As you’re probably aware, the Drimoleague Catholic Parish registers of baptism and marriage do not begin until the year 1817. This is according to the National Library of Ireland website link at: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0046

    I don’t believe your Sullivan ancestors belonged to the Church of Ireland, but if they did, the Church of Ireland parish registers are available from the year 1812.

    The Civil Parish as well as the Church of Ireland Parish was spelled, “Dromdaleague.” You had mentioned Dromdaleague in your Ireland Reaching Out message. I also found the same spelling at the townlands.ie link at: https://www.townlands.ie/cork/dromdaleague/

    There are two records that do record the Sullivans in Angram, Civil Parish of Dromdaleague. The earliest of these records is the Tithe Applotment Books. A Daniel Sullivan was recorded in Angram in the Tithe Applotment Books in 1826 as you can see in the tithe index from the National Archives of Ireland website link at: https://is.gd/dIICKU

    A copy of the original tithe record shows the entry is for Daniel Sullivan & Sons. The image is very blurry and difficult to read, but you can make out some of the writing and the numbers. See a copy of the original at: https://is.gd/AibmVP

    Daniel Sullivan is the second entry down from the top of the right-hand page, and shows that he and his sons had leased five different plots of land totaling 170 acres. Much of the rest of the entry is too blurry to make out, as are the headings of the columns at the top of the page.

    This Daniel Sullivan may have been your Andrew’s father. If Andrew had been born around 1810, he would have been 16 years old when the tithe applotments were recorded for the townland of Angram.

    To learn more about the Tithe Applotment Books go to the National Archives of Ireland links at the following:

    http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp
    http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/about.jsp
    http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/aboutmore.jsp

    To search the Tithe Applotment Books: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp

    Attached to this reply is an Ordnance Survey Map of Angram in color. The map is from the 1837 to 1842 time period, and comes from the GeoHive website. The map shows the townland of Angram was 143 Acres, 1 Rood, and 36 Perches in size.

    The second record where the Sullivans are found in Angram comes from an Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation.

    Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for the Civil Parish of Dromdaleague was completed by the year 1853, almost 30 years after the Tithe Applotments were recorded for Angram.

    Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who paid to lease property, such as land, houses, and outbuildings. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman collecting the rent on Gale Day for the owner. This middleman was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

    You can search for Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the askaboutireland website link at:
    http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

    Griffiths Valuation shows there are only six Occupiers, or lease payers recorded in Angram. Five of these are Sullivans. The sixth Occupier is Bridget Harrington.

    See the attached Griffiths Valuation for Angram

    The Sullivans include Andrew, Michael Senior, Daniel, Daniel Junior, and Jeremiah.

    All of the Sullivans are shown to have leased land.

    The Immediate Lessor, or middleman who collected the rent from Andrew, Michael Senior, and Daniel Sullivan, was John Swanton. The Immediate Lessor for Bridget Harrington was Daniel Sullivan.

    Michael and Andrew Sullivan were also the Immediate Lessors for an unoccupied house in Angram. The Immediate Lessor for Daniel Sullivan Jr. was John Swanton. Daniel Sullivan was the Immediate Lessor for the second unoccupied house in Angram. The Immediate Lessor for Jeremiah Sullivan was John Swannton.

    To the left of the names of the Occupiers, you’ll see number and letter combinations: 1 a,b,c,d; 2 a, 2 b; and 3. These are locations markers on an Ordnance Survey Map of Angram from the time period of Grifffths Valuation, very similar to the Ordnance Survey Map in color that is attached.

    The Griffiths Valuation Map is available for download from the askaboutireland website. I’ve attached the map to this reply. I’ve also attached an enlarged version of the Griffiths Valuation Map.

    On the Griffiths Valuation Ordnance Maps you’ll see that map location Number 1 is situated in the central/western portion of Angram. Map Number 2 is north/northeast central, and Number 3, south/southeast central of the town.

    The houses and land that Andrew, Michael Sullivan Senior, Daniel Sullivan, Bridget Harrington, as well as the unoccupied house are in map section 1 of Angram.

    Daniel Sullivan Junior’s lease and the unoccupied house were in map section 2, while Jeremiah’s Sullivan’s house, offices, and land are in map section 3.

    An “office” in a Griffiths Valuation record could refer to any type of outbuilding, such as a barn, stable, blacksmith shop, piggery, etc.

    After finding the Sullivans in Griffiths Valuation and seeing where their individual leasehold were located, you can say this family basically leased the whole town of Angram. Bridget Harrington didn’t lease any land at all, but only a house valued at 5 Shillings.

    Andrew Sullivan didn’t lease a house, but leased a third portion of the over 79 acres in common with Michael Sullivan Senior and Daniel Sullivan. The three had each leased 7 Acres and 10 Perches of land.

    The Daniel Sullivan at Map reference 1b, may have been the patriarch of the family, and may have also been the same Daniel Sullivan recorded in Angram in the Tithe Applotment Books 29 years earlier.

    DRIMOLEAGUE CATHOLIC PARISH CHURCHES

    According to the “Catholic Parishes and Civil Parish Links - c1837” link from the Shane Wilson website, there were two churches in the Catholic Parish of Drimoleague. One of course was and is in Drimoleague itself. The other is in Drinagh. Drinagh however, was not in the Civil Parish of Dromaleague, but in the Civil Parish of its own name, Drinagh.

    See the Shane Wilson link for more information and a map at: https://is.gd/o1Hh2g

    A Google Map shows that Angram is closest to the Parish Church in Drimoleague, and is likely the church where your Sullivans were baptized and married before they left Ireland in 1881. See the map at: https://is.gd/sbEhZi

    The Catholic Church in Drimoleague is called All Saints Catholic Church on Chapel Street: https://is.gd/2OYkCz

    But, a Google Street View shows this is a more modern church and would not have been the church building where the Sullivans had worshipped: https://is.gd/DTw5CK

    According to the Drimoleague All Saints Church website, the church was constructed in the year 1956: http://corkandross.org/parishes/drimoleague/

    The Drimoleague All Saints Church website also shows the Sacred Heart Church in Drinagh, was constructed in 1932.

    Attached to this reply is an Ordnance Survey Map of “Dromdaleague” from the 1837 to 1842 time period, showing the location of the R.C. Chapel, but what today is the All Saints Catholic Church. The map is from GeoHive.

    I compared the location of the church on the Ordnance Survey Map with the location of the church on the Google Map. It appears the 1956 structure was bult on, or very near where the old R.C. Chapel was located in Drimoleague.

    1901 AND 1911 IRISH CENSUS

    Both the 1901 and 1911 Irish record one Sullivan family recorded in Angram.

    The 1901 census shows the family of 67 year old Daniel Sullivan and 58 year old Mary Sullivan and adult children, were the “Residents of a house 3 in Angram (Killeenleigh, Cork).”

    House 3 would not have been the street address, but the number on the census form, likely the 3rd house visited by the enumerator.

    The census shows that Daniel and Mary have four children in the household. All the family members were Roman Catholic and all born in County Cork. You can view the 1901 census transcription of the Sullivan family at the National Archives of Ireland website link at: https://is.gd/jYTmmN

    Once the census downloads, make sure you click on “Show all information” to view the full census page.

    To view a copy of the original 1901 census for the Sullivan family in Angram, see: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000589419/

    In the lower right corner of the census page, you’ll see the signature of Daniel Sullivan as the head of the household. The enumerator who picked up the census from the Sullivan family was Constable Edward McAuley.

    There were only three other families recorded in the 1901 census for Angram. There were two families named Harnedy, and one Hourihan family in addition to the Sullivans: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Killeenleigh/Angram/

    By the 1911 census 72 year old Mary Sullivan was a widow. Two of her children, 42 year old Jeremiah and 36 year old James, were in the household with her. Mary, Jeremiah, and James were the “Residents of a house 3 in Angram (Killeenleagh, Cork).”

    See the census transcription from the National Library of Ireland at: https://is.gd/jkjtbS

    For a copy of the original 1911 census of the Sullivan family, see: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002015639/

    All the Best Kevin,

    Dave Boylan

    ATTACHMENTS:

    Ordnance survey Map of Angram
    Griffiths Valuation for Angram
    Griffiths Valuation Map of Angram
    Griffiths Valuation Map of Angram Enlarged
    Ordnance Survey Map of Dromdaleague

    SOURCES:

    National Library of Ireland
    https://www.townlands.ie/cork/dromdaleague/
    National Archives of Ireland Tithe Applotment Books
    http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
    Griffiths Valuation
    Griffiths Valuation Maps
    Shane Wilson's Catholic Parishes and Civil Parish Links - c1837
    Google Maps
    Google Street Views
    All Saints Parish website: http://corkandross.org/parishes/drimoleague/
    1901 and 1911 irish Census returns from the National Archives of Ireland

    davepat

    Sunday 22nd August 2021, 06:26PM

    Attached Files

  • Dave,

    Thanks for all the hard work!

    I had seen the Griffiths Valuation records from the mid 1800s.  the Tithe Applottment Books, showing Daniel Sullivan & Sons helps solidify my assumption that Andrew's father was Daniel.  Andrew's death record in North Brookfield, Massachusetts lists his father as Daniel and his mother as Sarah Hennsey (spelling).

    I don't have records of any of Andrew's siblings.  Who the remaining son(s) are is unknown.

    Regarding the Griffiths records:

    I have Andrew's sons as Daniel (1840-1920), Michael (1851-1936), and Andrew (1853- ??).   I don't have any female siblings. Daniel and Michael both emigrated to the US, and died in North Brookfield, Massachusetts.  I have no information as to when or where Andrew Jr. died. Michael, my GG Grandfather emigrated in 1881.  His brother Daniel was already in Massachusetts, apparently emigrating in 1865.  

    Therefore I'm a bit confused regarding the five Sullivans in Angram in the Griffiths records.  As you state, I assume that Daniel is the partriach from the Tithe Applottment Books, and Andrew is his son.  I don't have a Daniel Junior, who probably would have been Daniel senior's third-born son (following naming conventions), or a Jeremiah.  Thoughts?

    Regarding the 1901 and 1911 Censuses:

    Daniel and Mary Sullivan shown in the 1901 Census may be somehow related, but their ages don't match with any of the men discussed above.  Daniel Senior would have been over 100 in 1901, while grandson Daniel would have been 61, and was living in the USA.  Andrew Jr. discussed above would have been 48 in 1901.  

    I'd love to find out the connection with the Sullivans in the 1901 and 1911 Censuses.  I'll have to see if I can find their birth, marriage and death records.

    Regarding churches:

    My Sullivans were Roman Catholic.  The current Drimoleague church, All Saints was built in 1956 to replace the nearby St Finbarr's Church built by Reverend John Ryan in 1828.  I found the following information regarding churches in the Dromdaleague (Drimoleague) and Drinagh area:

    Post Penal Times:

    Three distinct churches are accounted for in Drimoleague. Firstly, the curate's house on the southside of the village was the site of a post-penal church dating from about the year 1530 to the year 1826.

    Secondly, the Church of St. Finbarr was built prior to the year 1828 by Father John Ryan, PP.

    Thirdly, the present Church of All Saints dates from the year 1956 when Father Patrick Murphy was Parish Priest.

    As for Drinagh, the first post-penal church was at Paddock on the northside of the village in what was called P irc a' tSagairt. This is believed to have been a straw-covered church and a Father Vaughan was the priest in charge. This church dates from about the year 1720.

    The second church at Toughbaun was directly opposite the site of the Paddock Church and is believed to have been built between 1819 and 1824. It was built by Father John Ryan of Drimoleague.

    Today's Church of the Sacred Heart is built on a new site at the north of the village street and it was opened for divine service on 3 April 1942 by Bishop Daniel Coholan. An interesting point, now perhaps forgotten, is that this church occupies the site of the old RIC Barracks. 

    So, assuming that Daniel Sullivan Senior and his sons lived in and around Angram (Dromdaleague), they would have worshipped in St Finbarr's at the time of Tithe and Griffiths records.  JD Creedon was a priest at St Finbarr's from 1834, taking over as the pastor following Father Ryan's death in 1850.  Andrew's birth or baptisimal records must be lost in antiquity, since they predate the 1917 start of known records in the area.  

    I haven't been able to find a death record or a grave associated with Daniel Senior, or Andrew's son Andrew (unknown death).  

    Thanks again for all research.  I'll post any developments or updates to my continued search.

    kws2311

    Monday 23rd August 2021, 03:41PM
  • Hello Kevin,

    Many thanks for your reply. and the additional details.

    It can be a challenge to decipher a Griffiths Valuation record, especially when see several individuals in the same town with the same surname. For instance, when I see a Daniel Sullivan, followed by a Daniel Sullivan Jr., it looks like they could be father and son. But in this case I can't be sure. If the first Daniel Sullivan had a Sr. after his name, then I would know they were father and son.

    In some Griffith Valuation entries you'll see Patrick Sullivan (John); or Patrick Sullivan (Daniel) recorded in the same townland. These tell you the father of the first Partrick Sullivan is John, and the father of the second Patrick Sullivan is Daniel. This convention is what's called an agnomen, meaning additional name. See John Grenham's article from the Ask About Ireland website: https://is.gd/4pNVTC

    I've also see Griffiths Valuation entries such as Patrick Sullivan (Roe) and Patrick Sullivan (Black). The first Patrick Sullivan in this instance had red hair, while the second Patrick Sullivan had black hair. The agnomens "Roe" and "Black" show there are two Occupiers with same name in the same town, but with different hair color. The Griffiths "Valuers" tried not to leave any stone unturned, as their boss, Sir Richard Griffiths, from what I understand, was a hard taskmaster: https://is.gd/UL7vpp

    It is also unfortunate that many of the Irish parish registers do not go back far enough in time to have recorded the baptisms and marriages of our great great and great great great grandparents, though there are some Catholic and Church of Ireland parishes in various counties with registers back to the 18th century and even some to the 17th century.

    Again, thank you for writing Kevin. If there are any Catholic baptisms or marriages or civil registration birth, marriage, and death records you'd like me to look for, don't hesitate to ask.

    Dave

    davepat

    Wednesday 25th August 2021, 06:58PM