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Wilkins & Hautenville

Samuel Hautenville born c1690 in Lisburn and Elizabeth Wilkins married 9/4/1730 in St Marys, Dublin. I am searching for her date of birth and parents. Any advice most welcome. Thankyou

GMcC

Wednesday 11th September 2019, 07:12PM

Message Board Replies

  • Do you know when she died and what age she was supposed to have been at death?  Have you found all her children with correct birth year for each? That information might help in narrowing down a timespan for her birth. 

    Did they marry by banns or by licence? If they married by licence and if Elizabeth was under 21 at the time of marriage, her father or guardian had to signify permission on the marriage licence. There is some information about marriage licences and bonds in Ireland in the information section about Index to Irish Wills 1484-1858 on Find My Past. (The information section can be read without a subscription.) Unfortunately so many documents were destroyed in 1922 during the Civil War.

    Samuel Hautenville's name is in will indexes in 1730 and 1753.  The name Daniel Hautenville/Hattenville crops up a few times.    See:

      Index to Irish Wills 1484-1858 

    Index to the Acts and Grant Books and Original Wills of the Diocese of Dublin 

    Ardagh Wills 1690-1857

    Leighlin Administrations 1700-1857 

    Prior to 1858 wills were proved in church courts and therefore archived wills were organised according to diocese. 

    What do you know about Samuel? Was he in business or did he have land or money? Some businessmen married a relative of a partner or a woman from a family in the same type of business. Look for him in newspapers to see with whom he had dealings and if the marriage was reported. Some Irish news was also copied in British nespapers. Info about genealogical value of newspapers here:   https://timeline.ie/irish-newspapers

    Lisburn to Dublin was a long way to go to find a wife. What else took him or his family to Dublin? 

    The Hautenville name is in Betham Genealogical Abstracts in Irish National Archives.  It's on Find My Past.

     

     

    Maggie May

    Friday 13th September 2019, 11:56PM
  • You appear to have made an earlier post (2015) under the title "Hautenville".  The previous post said that Daniel Hautenville married Elizabeth, daughter of Rev. Josiah Wilkins, in Dublin, 1730.   https://irelandxo.com/ireland/dublin/message-board/hautenville 

    Image of the marriage register is in the church records section on Irish Genealogy.ie  The bridegroom's name in the register was Samuel Hattanvil.  The marriage was by Prorogative Licence. According to transcription of the baptism register, they had a daughter, Dorothy, baptised 16th March 1731 and a son, Daniel, aged 9 days, baptised 4th April 1731.  Dorothy was actually baptised in the year 1732. The old calendar changed at the end of March so according to that, 16th March was the previous year. A date of birth 16th March 1731 would usually be transcribed as 16th March 1731/2.  There was also a child written as "Chorlot" in baptism register, transcribed as "Corbot". 

    Chapter 3 "The Huguenots come to Lisburn" in  " The Huguenots of Lisburn" by Rt. Rev. Dr. Samuel Poyntz has a list of Huguenot families. This says that Elizabeth's father was Rev. Josiah Wilkins, Rector of Lisburn and Dean of Clogher. According to this, Elizabeth's grandmother was Dorothy, daughter of Sir John Rawdon of Moira.  A portrait of a Rawdon Hautenville is in "Photographs" section. 

    www.lisburn.com/books/huguenots/bishoppoyntz.html 

    There are other relevant book on the same Lisburn website:

    One is "Lisburn Cathedral and its' Past Rectors" by Carmody. Unforunately the list of rectors in the book seems to begin in 1720s.  Another is "Moira - a Historical Handbook" by C.R. J. Rudd, Rector of Moira. It has information about the Rawdon family. 

    Could Josiah Wilkins have been the same person as Joseph Wilkins?  A Joseph Wilkins who was Rector of Lisburn was mentioned in  "Christ Church, Parish of Derriaghy"  which is also among the list of books on the Lisburn website. Joseph Wilkins was Vicar of Derriaghy which was united to Lisburn.  According to this, his wife was niece to Sir George Rawdon.  Joseph was Rector of Lisburn 1696-1707. There was a disastrous fire in Lisburn in 1707. Joseph saved the church registers from burning.  (Good man, Joseph !)  

    Joseph's brief account of the fire is quoted on "Field of Drums" which also has information about the Huguenots of Lisburn.

    https://fielddrums.blogspot.com/2009/08/land-of-linen-and-lambeg-drum.html  

    A George Wilkins, son of a Rev. Joseph Wilkins was baptised at Lisburn, 1675.  George is on Glenavy Parish Church clergy list on GlenavyHistory.com 

    Geni  "Huguenots of Ireland"  project.  Includes links to sources of information.    https://www.geni.com/projects/Huguenots-of-Ireland/12955      A tree on Geni has Elizabeth born 1694 and Josiah c1660. 

    The registers of Lisburn Cathedral are at Public Records Office in Belfast (PRONI). 

    "The List of Church of Ireland Parish Registers"  See the note in the final column next to Lisburn Cathedral about extracts available online.

    https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/...

      Edit. The link didn't work although it's correct. Internet search for List of Church of Ireland parish registers finds it.

     

    Huguenot Society of Great Britain and Ireland    https://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk

     

    Maggie May

    Saturday 14th September 2019, 04:43AM
  • Hello Maggie, Many thanks for this new information that I will follow up. I have added responses to your information preceded by an * and that I hope will assist others. If you, or anyone else has further information I will be delighted to hear from them.

    Kind regards

    GMcC

    Do you know when she died and what age she was supposed to have been at death?  Have you found all her children with correct birth year for each? That information might help in narrowing down a timespan for her birth. 

    * Children of Samuel, and Elizabeth were Daniel Baptised 4/4/1731, Dorothy baptised 19/3/1732, Sussana baptised 4/11/1733, John Baptised 24/11/1734, Corbot Baptised 22/8/1736. George Baptised 9/4/1738 St Marys Dublin, Rawdon born 1742.

    Did they marry by banns or by licence? If they married by licence and if Elizabeth was under 21 at the time of marriage, her father or guardian had to signify permission on the marriage licence. There is some information about marriage licences and bonds in Ireland in the information section about Index to Irish Wills 1484-1858 on Find My Past. (The information section can be read without a subscription.) Unfortunately so many documents were destroyed in 1922 during the Civil War.

    * Elizabeth Wilkins and Samuel Hautenville born 1690 in Lisburn, married 9/4/1730 at St Mary’s Church Dublin. As this was a Prerogative Licence does this mean Elizabeth was under 21 at time of marriage?

    Samuel Hautenville's name is in will indexes in 1730 and 1753.  The name Daniel Hautenville/Hattenville crops up a few times.    See:

    * Could Daniel have been Samuel’s father?

      Index to Irish Wills 1484-1858 

    Index to the Acts and Grant Books and Original Wills of the Diocese of Dublin 

    Ardagh Wills 1690-1857

    Leighlin Administrations 1700-1857 

    Prior to 1858 wills were proved in church courts and therefore archived wills were organised according to diocese. 

    What do you know about Samuel? Was he in business or did he have land or money? Some businessmen married a relative of a partner or a woman from a family in the same type of business. Look for him in newspapers to see with whom he had dealings and if the marriage was reported. Some Irish news was also copied in British newspapers. Info about genealogical value of newspapers here:   https://timeline.ie/irish-newspapers

    * Samuel was a Haberdasher

    Lisburn to Dublin was a long way to go to find a wife. What else took him or his family to Dublin? 

    * Possible after great fire in Lisburn 1707?

    The Hautenville name is in Betham Genealogical Abstracts in Irish National Archives.  It's on Find My Past.

    * Will try that Thank you

    ·  You appear to have made an earlier post (2015) under the title "Hautenville".  The previous post said that Daniel Hautenville married Elizabeth, daughter of Rev. Josiah Wilkins, in Dublin, 1730.   https://irelandxo.com/ireland/dublin/message-board/hautenville 

    * The Daniel marriage was believed correct at the time, but recent research finds that Samuel married Elizabeth.

    Image of the marriage register is in the church records section on Irish Genealogy.ie  The bridegroom's name in the register was Samuel Hattanvil.  The marriage was by Prorogative Licence. According to transcription of the baptism register, they had a daughter, Dorothy, baptised 16th March 1731 and a son, Daniel, aged 9 days, baptised 4th April 1731.  Dorothy was actually baptised in the year 1732. The old calendar changed at the end of March so according to that, 16th March was the previous year. A date of birth 16th March 1731 would usually be transcribed as 16th March 1731/2.  There was also a child written as "Chorlot" in baptism register, transcribed as "Corbot". 

    Chapter 3 "The Huguenots come to Lisburn" in  " The Huguenots of Lisburn" by Rt. Rev. Dr. Samuel Poyntz has a list of Huguenot families. This says that Elizabeth's father was Rev. Josiah Wilkins, Rector of Lisburn and Dean of Clogher. According to this, Elizabeth's grandmother was Dorothy, daughter of Sir John Rawdon of Moira.  A portrait of a Rawdon Hautenville is in "Photographs" section. www.lisburn.com/books/huguenots/bishoppoyntz.html 

    * Examining the peerage record does not seem to show Elizabeth’s grandmother as Dorothy. http://www.thepeerage.com/p3906.htm#i39058

    There are other relevant book on the same Lisburn website:

    One is "Lisburn Cathedral and its' Past Rectors" by Carmody. Unforunately the list of rectors in the book seems to begin in 1720s.  Another is "Moira - a Historical Handbook" by C.R. J. Rudd, Rector of Moira. It has information about the Rawdon family. 

    Could Josiah Wilkins have been the same person as Joseph Wilkins?  A Joseph Wilkins who was Rector of Lisburn was mentioned in  "Christ Church, Parish of Derriaghy"  which is also among the list of books on the Lisburn website. Joseph Wilkins was Vicar of Derriaghy which was united to Lisburn.  According to this, his wife was niece to Sir George Rawdon.  Joseph was Rector of Lisburn 1696-1707. There was a disastrous fire in Lisburn in 1707. Joseph saved the church registers from burning.  (Good man, Joseph !)  

    * The Anglican Library has this information – “Joseph Wilkins held the R. of Lisburn from 1672-1716. Married at Lisburn Cathedral 23/4/1674, Mrs Mary Tandy sister of Sir George Rawden, Bart of Moira. He died in 1716 and was buried at Lisburn 22/5/1716 age 82. His wife was also buried there 30/11/1618”. He had a son George born in Lisburn c1675.

    Joseph's brief account of the fire is quoted on "Field of Drums" which also has information about the Huguenots of Lisburn.

    https://fielddrums.blogspot.com/2009/08/land-of-linen-and-lambeg-drum.html  

    A George Wilkins, son of a Rev. Joseph Wilkins was baptised at Lisburn, 1675.  George is on Glenavy Parish Church clergy list on GlenavyHistory.com 

    Geni  "Huguenots of Ireland"  project.  Includes links to sources of information.    https://www.geni.com/projects/Huguenots-of-Ireland/12955      A tree on Geni has Elizabeth born 1694 and Josiah c1660. 

    The registers of Lisburn Cathedral are at Public Records Office in Belfast (PRONI). 

    "The List of Church of Ireland Parish Registers"  See the note in the final column next to Lisburn Cathedral about extracts available online. https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/

    * The Mother of Elizabeth is missing from this record also. So far no birth, death, or parents.

      Edit. The link didn't work although it's correct. Internet search for List of Church of Ireland parish registers finds it.

    Huguenot Society of Great Britain and Ireland    https://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk

    * They have a number of records on CD which I have purchased. Access to their records is by appointment at the (English) National Records in Kew.

    GMcC

    Saturday 14th September 2019, 11:02PM