William McGroogan, Ann Irvin

Stephen,

Limerick and Carrickfergus are a considerable distance apart. Probably 250 miles. That’s not to say people didn’t make that sort of journey but it would be fairly unusual for a woman born in Limerick to marry in Carrickfergus. Do you have any evidence that it’s the same Ann Irvin? (The 1901 census of Ireland had 140 women named Ann Irvine, so it’s a fairly common name.)

Carrickfergus RC records only start in 1821 so the Ann who married there in 1828 could easily have been baptised there too. Just there won’t be a record.

Likewise Loughguile’s records don’t start till 1845, so again any Ann born there before that year won’t appear in the baptism records.

If your information is that you are descended from a Limerick family, I’d be expecting most of the relations to be in that area too. What were their occupations? If farmers or labourers they’d likely stay in that area. Of course a soldier, sailor or police officer and some tradesmen like masons might move around the country but generally people stayed in the same area they were born.

Hi there, I am from a Denis McGrogan born circa 1782 in Antrim and married Sarah Carr approximatly 1808 in Antrim, likely Ballymena or nearby. He and Sarah had a number of children Hugh, Mary, Martha, James, John, Bryan, William. Have DNA tested plus my father (deceased). Happy to swap any information. adel.vera@gmail.com

From my own notes is the following: 

"Denis was tried at Carrickfergus Assizes, 12th August 1824, in County Antrim by Honorable Judge Mr. McLennon, for stealing two pieces of linmer - both of which were found in his garden - and proven to be the property of W.(?) Geehan. Shown on indent as robbing bleach-green. He was sentenced to be transported for life to one of His Majesty's islands.

Denis was held in Kilmainham Prison, Dublin, and from there wrote the following in a petition:-

"To His Excellency Marquis Wellesley - General and General Governor of Ireland.

The Humble Petition of Denis McGrogan Most Humbly Shewish that petitioner is a poor man of the age of fifty years and has a wife and five small children, one of them is a cripple and his wife has lost her health. Petitioner was tried at Carrick Fergus Assizes in the County Antrim at last _________, before the Honourable Judge McLennan. Petitioner begs leave to inform your Excellency that he was noted for two pieces of Linmer (linen) Cloth which was found in Petitioner's garden and proved to be the property of (W. or Mr.?) Geehan. Petitioner received his sentence from the Honourable Judge McLennon To be Transported for life to one of his Majesty's Islands. Petitioner implores your Most Humane Excellency that your Excellency will take pity on the weak and helpless family of Petitioner. Petitioner Most Humbly waits your Hymane Excellency's answer 

as in duty bound Petitioner will forever pray.

Dennis McGrogan  Convict 

Kilmainham Prison."

It would seem the petition was not agreed to as Denis was sent to New South Wales. Upon arrival in the colony, Denis was assigned to James Underwood, a distiller at Botany in Sydney. In the 1828 Census, his name is listed under MCGREGGOR, Denis. "

 Hi Elwyn  and other Posters.   Many thanks for your contributions.  I accept that the distance between Limerick and Larne/Carrickfergus is quite a distance, and the fact of a birth in Limerick and a marriage in Carrickfergus surprised me.  All I can think is that  Ellen and Ann's parents had reasons to be in both places at the respective times. I have found no more details about either parents, so keep looking.  My Ellen Irvin traveled to New Brunswick, Canada, around 1833, and athough her birth date never appeared in any records there, or in New Zealand in her death records,  the year of birth fits, and thus a lead for her twin sister Ann/Anne . I am fairly certain this is the right Ellen Irvin.   My recent discovery of a potential marriage of her twin sister Ann is now the focus of my research. I will consider the other postings and get back with any other information.  Many thanks for your interest and information.. Regards.  Stephen

Stephen,

Most Irish marriage records in the 1820s don’t record the couple’s parents (normally all you get is the couples names, the date and the 2 witnesses. No addresses, parents names or occupations) making it very difficult to be sure which family they came from, which is why I am cautious about accepting these are all the same families.  But perhaps you have additional information about yours? But if not I’d suggest caution is required before assuming they are connected.

Sometimes the children's naming pattern can help when looking at their grandparents' families.

Hi Elwyn and Edel   Thanks for your postings.  I believe that My Daniel and Ellen {nee Irvin} McAuley  in part followed Irish naming patterns. Daniel's parents in all New Brunswick family folklore were George McAuley and Mary McDonald, who incidentally was the brother of Randle/Ronald McDonald who went to New Brunswick around 1812, and thus was a pivotal reason for Daniel, Ellen, and son George to go to NB    Anyway, Daniel and Ellen {nee Irvin} McAuley's first son was called George, and first daughter was called Mary, thus suggesting the usual naming pattern. Their second daughter was called Sarah, so presumably after Ellen's mother. However no subsequent son was called Lawrence after Ellen's father, and from all records, the name Lawrence does not applear in any family line. No parents' names appear on Ellen's NZ death certificate.  I continue to search for Ann/e Irvin's husband's name William McGroogan, married 9 November 1828.  I have searched all manner of variations of the McGroogan name, and one appears a more likely candidate: William McGourgan, bapt 7? December 1799 at Sismeno {? unable to locate this place}, Armagh, to James McGourgan and Mary Raverty.  I wonder whether or not thes names  James McGourgan and Mary Raverty 'tie in' with any readers' family trees  who follow these postings.   In the meantime I will continue to search from a distance, both time and place, and will focus on ascertaining whether the names located so far follow a naming pattern, so as to assist my research.   Regards, and always, thanks to one an all. I have found this IrelandXO very useful in being able to post queries.  Stephen, Cambridge, NZ

Hi Stephen, Do you have a tree on Ancestry? I have guessed only that my Denis McGrogan, who died in NSW, was a son of an Israel McGrogan. When Denis' great grandchildren were baptised in Goulburn to father William Costello and Martha née Whittaker (whose mother had surname McGrogan), there were sponsors with McGuigan surname. No idea if a variant. Regards, Adel

Hi Adel.   Unfortunately I am not a member of Ancestry, and thus have not posted a tree on that web service.    I will keep  monitoring this IrelandXO perchance some other reader will notice one of my many postings.  Regards and thanks to one and all. Stephen.