Help with Family name

I forgot to say "I look forward to hearing from you."

Lisa Shaw Leavitt

Lisa,

I looked for a birth of an Isabelle Bell in Belfast in 1881/ 1882 (since the birth was most likely registered in the first week or two of 1882). None in Belfast.

I looked for a marriage for Robert Bell to Sarah. There were two in 1879, one in Ballycastle, Co Antrim the other in Newtownards, Co Down. Do you know Sarah?s maiden name?

Re William Logan born c 1832 in Ballymena, this is long before the start of civil birth registration (1864). You?ll need to rely on church records for his baptism. To do that you need to know his exact denomination. I?d guess Presbyterian. There ware/were 6 Presbyterian churches in Ballymena. Copies of their early records, where they have survived, are held in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. Not all are on-line, and a personal visit is required to access all of them.

Likewise for James Logan, you would need to search church records. Marriages prior to 1845 generally don?t contain parents names and so even if you locate it, you may not learn too much more from the records. (Usually just the date, the couples names and their 2 witnesses. Occasionally the townland where the person lived at the time of their marriage, but not always).

Elwyn

Hello Elwyn,

Thank you so very much for all of your help!! It's interesting because after I got your email this morning I've spent the last 3 hours trying to find out what I can about Isabelle. I tried finding her on passenger records through ancestry.com and was unable to. The date of her arriving/immigrating in 1899 came off of a Canadian Census record. I went through all the information I have online and some records I had printed off a couple of years ago while I was at the family history library in Salt Lake City. 

After doing this I came across something rather interesting. The information I had on her being born 31 December 1881 in Belfast, Ireland came from a lady who has done a lot of research. As I dug deeper though I did not see anything documenting or supporting that actual date or place. I've sent her an email to see where she got that from.

What I did find while going through the Canadian Census records that I have for her and her death record is it just always lists her birthplace as "Ireland" and nothing else. That's pretty broad!! I originally got her parents names off of her death record and I've found no other record with her parents names. I need to try and find her marriage record and maybe it will have more informaiton with her parents names. She was married in Canada in 1901. 

I know that a death record is not considered a primary source but I did find it interesting that her son was the informant on the record and he recorded her birth date as 5 December 1880 but he too only had "Ireland" and nowhere specific in Ireland. 

I'll see what else I can dig up on this end. I will also go and see what else I can find out about William Logan and James Logan in regards to their denomination. 

Thank you again for your help and advice. I really appreciate it.

Lisa 

Elwyn,

I have acquired Isabelle's marriage record. Sadly it did not have any more information about where in Ireland she was born. It has less than her death certificate. She only put Northern Ireland. The interesting thing is that I learned a bit more about her parents. I had her Father's name right from the death record but now have his middle name. Her Mother's name is completely different. The marriage record lists her Father as John Robert Bell and her Mother as Mary Jane. She is also listed as being Methodist. I don't know if that's what she was in Ireland or if she converted to that religion once she came to Canada. 

I'm hoping this new information may shed a little more light that could help in finding out more information about her, her parents, and other members of her family.

Thank you for all your help.

Lisa

I searched for Isabelle (and variants) born in Belfast in 1880 but did not find any listed. The nearest was a Margaret Bell born 5^th Dec 1880, mothers previous name Henderson.

You can view that cert on-line for ?2 on the GRONI website, to get the parents full details. Use the search birth registrations option.

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

I searched for marriages between John Bell and Mary Jane between 1867 and 1881 and found 2. One in Cookstown 1877 (mothers previous name was also Bell). The other was in Lisburn 1872. In addition, there was a Mary in Ballymena in 1875. Again you can view any of those on-line for ?2 a time.

Methodism tends to support the likelihood of Isabelle being from the northern counties of Ireland. The denomination is much more common there than in the rest of Ireland.

Thank you again for all your help. I'll try what you said. My Irish lines have been so frustrating and difficult!! I keep telling my husband that I think I need to make a trip there in person to find out more :) Although, I want to try and get as much done as I can on this end so I can be more productive there.

Happy New Year!

Lisa Shaw Leavitt

Thank you again for all your help. I'll try what you said. My Irish lines have been so frustrating and difficult!! I keep telling my husband that I think I need to make a trip there in person to find out more :) Although, I want to try and get as much done as I can on this end so I can be more productive there.

Happy New Year!

Lisa Shaw Leavitt

Lisa,

Yes it is difficult. With regard to the Logan & Reilly research, you probably can?t do that from anywhere other than Belfast because the records you want are mostly not on-line. Unless you employ a researcher, you?ll probably have to go to PRONI yourself to look for the various events on the microfilms there. (You could try writing to all the churches but my general experience is that many won?t reply).

Isabelle?s birth is easier because you can search those records on-line. The problem is that so far we have not found any record that matches either of the dates of birth you have for her. Either the dates are wrong or she wasn?t registered with the name Isabelle. Isabelle may have been a middle name. The snag is that the majority of births were registered with just one Christian name (and occasionally with none) so if the name Isabelle is not in the indexes she?ll be difficult to trace. To put it mildly.

I looked at births, anywhere in Ireland, for Isabelle (and variants) Bell from 1870 to 1885. There are 32. (None is spelled Isabelle. The majority are Isabella or Bella with one Isabel). 26 were in what is now Northern Ireland and just 6 in the Republic of Ireland.

You could start working your way through those births, looking for parents with the revised names you now have. The ones in Northern Ireland will cost you ?2 each to view, and are on-line. The 6 for the Republic of Ireland will have to be ordered from GRO Roscommon, at ?4 each.

People often altered their ages for various reasons. Usually because they were too young or too old for whatever it was they wanted to do. However you can presumably assume that Isabelle was at least 16 to marry in 1901 so she must have been born before 1885. But if she was a minor, and so needed parental consent, she might have bumped her age up to 21 or if she was older than her husband, she might have knocked a few years off. Both practices were common. (If Canada is the same as Ireland and the UK, no proof of identity or age was required to marry at that time).

Information on a marriage certificate is normally more reliable than on a death certificate because it?s first hand from the individuals concerned whereas a death must always be second hand information, often from someone with incomplete knowledge of the deceased. (They are often unlikely to have ever known the deceased?s parents, for example).

Elwyn