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I'm looking for relatives of Rachel Elizabeth Murphy, born 11 Nov 1910.  Parents were Samuel Murphy and Margaret (Irvine) Murphy.

Samuel was born in Co. Down and Margaret was born in Co. Antrim.  Both were born approximately 1861.

Samuel and Margaret were married 11 Aug 1909 at Lisburn Cathedral, Church of Ireland.  Margaret's father was William J. Irvine and Samuel's was James Murphy. I have found Margaret's family in the 1901 and 1911 Census residing on Longstone Street, Lisburn.

In the 1911 Census, Samuel, Margaret and Rachel were Residents of a house 48 in Largymore, Blaris, Down.

I'm trying to tie this family to the family of John Finlay and Elizabeth Stevenson.  I believe that Margaret's mother, Ann Jane was a Stevenson and was the sister of my Elizabeth Stevenson.  I would also like to determine the maiden name of Elizabeth's mother.  According to her marriage certificate her father's name was James.

I hope I've posted this in the appropriate Parish but if not, please let me know.


Libby Clarke



Tuesday 13th June 2017, 07:33PM

Message Board Replies

  • Libby,

    Margaret Irvine’s birth was on 23.7.1886 (under the spelling Ervine, a common variant). Father was William John Ervine and mother was Ann Jane Stevenson. Birth occurred in Longstone St, Lisburn.

    William John & Ann Jane appear to have married in Lisburn in 1881. Marriage in 1881 aren't on-line free yet. You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

    You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate. Ann Jane’s father appears to be James but you should get the certificate to confirm that.

    Ann Jane and her potential sister Elizabeth were probably born before the start of statutory registration in Ireland (1864) and so you would need to search church baptism records to confirm both had the same parents. Though perhaps the addresses and father’s occupations on the marriage certificates will indicate whether they are the same.

    Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church which should be on the marriage certificate (unless it was a Registry Office marriage). That church may be the place to look for her baptism and that of any siblings.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Tuesday 13th June 2017, 08:20PM
  • Hi Elwyn,

    Thank you so much for this information.  Upon looking at the marriage certificates for both Isabella and Elizabeth it appears that they have the same father listed, James who is a Labourer and the address is Longstone St in both cases. From this I think I can deduce that they are siblings.  I'm also looking for siblings named Rachel and William.  I believe that William may be older but I don't know about Rachel.

    Both Elizabeth was married in the Cathedral, Lisburn.  Isabella was married at Lisburn Christchurch.  I'm not sure if these are one and the same church or whether they are two separate churches.  

    I still don't know who their father James married which of course would help to solidify the fact that they are siblings if the mother's maiden name matches.

    I'm interested in this family because when my grandfather, John Finlay, Elizabeth's husband left Ireland around 1911 he gave a lot of the family possessions to the Irvine family.  My dream is that I might be able to recover some of these family heirlooms, especially any photos that may exist.

    Libby Clarke


    Wednesday 14th June 2017, 11:11PM
  • Christ Church Cathedral and Christ Church appear to be separate churches, according to PRONI’s catalogue.

    Spotted births for Gilbert Ervine 3.6.1884;

    Margaret 23.7.1886

    Rachael Ervine 13.10.1888

    John Irvine 1.1.1891

    George Irvine18.11.1895

    Herbert Ervine 9.4.1898

    All registered in Lisburn. Mother’s maiden name Stevenson.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Saturday 24th June 2017, 10:29PM
  • Thanks Elwyn,

    In looking at the record for Rachael Ervine I see that there are additional details under which are Marginal Notes: Three J.G.J. Can you tell me what this means?  

    Also, can I assume that in the column for Informant where it states Eliza Stevenson her mark present at birth Longstone Street, Lisburn that this would be Ann Jane's mother?

    I believe that the family you have found above are all children of William John Irvine and Ann Jane Stevenson.  The problem I'm having is establishing that Ann Jane is a sibling of Elizabeth Stevenson.



    Sunday 25th June 2017, 07:03PM
  • Libby,

    The letters JGJ aren’t related to Rachel’s birth. They are someone’s initials. I don’t know for certain but would guess that it was the Registrar’s supervisor, initialling the page of entries to show he had seen it and was OK with it.

    Eliza Stevenson could be anyone. Her “qualification” ie her relationship to the child, if any, should have been recorded but was omitted. (The rest of the births on that page have mother or father given for some but nothing for those where the parent wasn’t the informant). In addition to the parents, anyone present or with sufficient knowledge can register a birth (nowadays it’s often hospital staff). So this could be Anne Jane’s mother, but it could be a sister or cousin too. Or even a neighbour with the same surname. Note that the informant also lived in Longstone St. So were there any Eliza’s in the street in the 1901 census?

    You might struggle to find direct proof that the 2 women were sisters. You may just have to infer it from what you have found.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Monday 26th June 2017, 06:51AM