KNIPES family of Derryhale about 1875

Griffiths lists John Knipe on plot 26 in Derryhale, William on plot 42 and Jonathan on 54A. Jonathan evidently died intestate.

Full Abstract :

Letters of Administration of the personal estate of Jonathan Knipes late of Derryhale County Armagh Farmer deceased who died 22 June 1881 at same place were granted at Armagh to Sarah Knipes of same place the Widow.

Plot 26 changed from John Knipe to David Knipe in 1885 (probably on the death of the former).This family still there in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Richhill/Derryhale/1018756/

The family were evidently Church of Ireland. Derryhale is in Kilmore parish (Co. Armagh). Probably worth checking their baptisms for the family. Kilmore baptisms appear to start in 1789. A copy is held in PRONI, Belfast. (The records are not on-line).

I know I am late to the party but I have a fun problem to solve and I hope someone is still around to help me out.

Can anyone help me find the parents of my 3rd great grandfather, Jonathan Knipes?

Here is what I know so far. My 2nd great grandfather is David Louis Knipes Sr, born 1875 in Rutland, VT, USA. I know this from several documents and family memory. I am baffled by his father, Jonathan Knipes. 

1855- The earliest record I have for Jonathan is the 1855 census showing Jonathan Nipe b.1839 living  in Watervliet, NY with his mother and father, Solomon Nipe b.1819 and Susana Nipe b.1814. Jonathan's siblings Mary and Susana are also listed. The entire family shares Ireland as their place of birth.

1862- The next document is an enlistment record for Jonathan Knipes b.1838. According to this document Jonathan joined the Union Army at Rouses Point, NY. near the border with Canada in 1862. This record lists his birth place as Portadown, Ireland. In 1863, a second army record shows Jonathan Knipes with a listed residence in West Troy (Watervliet) NY. According to the enlistment record, Jonathan left the army in 1868.

1870- Shortly thereafter a Jonathan Knips b.1847 appears on the 1870 census in Clarendon, Rutland VT. He is listed with his wife Elizabeth and son William living in a house with his father in law, Hiram Jackson. Jonathan's birthplace is listed as Ireland and his mother and father are listed as foreign born.

1873- Jonathan Knipes b.1847 marries Elizabeth Langley Jackson in 1873 and his parents are entered as James Knipes and Elizabeth.

1880- Jonathan Knipes b.1847 appears on the 1880 Census in Rutland, VT. with his wife Elizabeth and sons Julius Knipes. Jonathan’s birthplace and that of his mother and father are entered as Ireland.

1890- In August of 1890, a Jonathan Knipes b.1844 traveled to Glasgow and was listed as single and the only passenger of Irish descent. Jonathan returned in September of the same year on the same ship and was listed along with every other passenger as Scottish.

1900- Jonathan Knipes b.1844 is listed as having been born in Ireland to a mother and father from Scotland. Jonathan’s immigration status is “Alien” and the year of immigration is 1857.

1910- Jonathan Knipes b.1842 appears on the 1910 census with nationality is entered as “Ireland Scotch” and Scotland is entered as the birthplace of his parents. His immigration year is entered as 1888 or 1849.

1917- When Jonathan Knipes' son Julius Knipes was married in 1917, his Jonathan’s birthplace is entered as Ireland.

1919- Jonathan Knipes b.1838 dies on 4/12/1919 in Clarendon, Rutland, VT. On that record his parents are entered as David Knipes and his mother is "unknown". The birthplace for all three individuals is entered as Ireland.

1939- When Jonathan Knipes' son Julius Knipes died in 1939 in North Clarendon, Rutland VT., the death certificate lists his father's birthplace as Scotland.

Additionally, when Jonathan’s children were married, his birthplace is invariably entered as Ireland.

Questions:

Was Jonathan Knipes born in 1838, 1844 or 1847?

Where was Jonathan born?

Is Jonathan’s father James Knipes, Solomon Nipe, or David Knipes?

Are “Watervliet Jonathan” and “Rutland Jonathan” the same person?

Did “Rutland” Jonathan serve in the US Civil War?

Marlowe Knipes

Hi,

I know I am late to the party but I have a fun problem to solve and I hope someone is still around to help me out.

My 2nd great grandfather is David Louis Knipes Sr, born 1875 in Rutland, VT, USA. I know this from several documents and family memory. I am baffled by his father, Jonathan Knipes. 

1855- The earliest record I have for Jonathan is the 1855 census showing Jonathan Nipe b.1839 living  in Watervliet, NY with his mother and father, Solomon Nipe b.1819 and Susana Nipe b.1814. Jonathan's siblings Mary and Susana are also listed. The entire family shares Ireland as their place of birth.

1862- The next document is an enlistment record for Jonathan Knipes b.1838. According to this document Jonathan joined the Union Army at Rouses Point, NY. near the border with Canada in 1862. This record lists his birth place as Portadown, Ireland. In 1863, a second army record shows Jonathan Knipes with a listed residence in West Troy (Watervliet) NY. According to the enlistment record, Jonathan left the army in 1868.

1870- Shortly thereafter a Jonathan Knips b.1847 appears on the 1870 census in Clarendon, Rutland VT. He is listed with his wife Elizabeth and son William living in a house with his father in law, Hiram Jackson. Jonathan's birthplace is listed as Ireland and his mother and father are listed as foreign born.

1873- Jonathan Knipes b.1847 marries Elizabeth Langley Jackson in 1873 and his parents are entered as James Knipes and Elizabeth.

1880- Jonathan Knipes b.1847 appears on the 1880 Census in Rutland, VT. with his wife Elizabeth and sons Julius Knipes. Jonathan’s birthplace and that of his mother and father are entered as Ireland.

1890- In August of 1890, a Jonathan Knipes b.1844 traveled to Glasgow and was listed as single and the only passenger of Irish descent. Jonathan returned in September of the same year on the same ship and was listed along with every other passenger as Scottish.

1900- Jonathan Knipes b.1844 is listed as having been born in Ireland to a mother and father from Scotland. Jonathan’s immigration status is “Alien” and the year of immigration is 1857.

1910- Jonathan Knipes b.1842 appears on the 1910 census with nationality is entered as “Ireland Scotch” and Scotland is entered as the birthplace of his parents. His immigration year is entered as 1888 or 1849.

1917- When Jonathan Knipes' son Julius Knipes was married in 1917, his Jonathan’s birthplace is entered as Ireland.

1919- Jonathan Knipes b.1838 dies on 4/12/1919 in Clarendon, Rutland, VT. On that record his parents are entered as David Knipes and his mother is "unknown". The birthplace for all three individuals is entered as Ireland.

1939- When Jonathan Knipes' son Julius Knipes died in 1939 in North Clarendon, Rutland VT., the death certificate lists his father's birthplace as Scotland.

Additionally, when Jonathan’s children were married, his birthplace is invariably entered as Ireland.

Questions:

Was Jonathan Knipes born in 1838, 1844 or 1847?

Where was Jonathan born?

Is Jonathan’s father James Knipes, Solomon Nipe, or David Knipes?

Are “Watervliet Jonathan” and “Rutland Jonathan” the same person?

Did “Rutland” Jonathan serve in the US Civil War?

Marloweknipes,

There is a record on rootsireland of Jonathan Knipe being baptised on 27.9.1838 in Eglish Church of Ireland, Co. Armagh. (That’s quite near to Portadown). Parents were Solomon, a farmer from Tullynike, and Susan Knipe.

It’s possible that there were other Jonathan Knipes (eg the one born in 1847) but not all church records are on-line. I can only assist you with this one.

The term “Ireland Scotch” which appears in the 1910 census probably means that the family originated in Scotland, settled in Ireland for a while before moving on again. Hundreds of thousands of Scots did that. In North America they tend to be called Scotch-Irish, and in Ireland Ulster-Scots. Though they had lived in Ireland for a couple of hundred years (most arrived in the 1600s), many Scots settlers did not see themselves as Irish and continued to identify with Scotland. Hence the terminology.

Tullynike appears in other records as Tullynickle or Tullynichol.

In the 1833 tithe applotment records there were 2 Knipe farms in Tullynickle, held by James & Thomas. One of them might be Solomon’s father.

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/armagh/tithe-applotments/eglish-parish…

Griffiths Valuation for 1864 lists 4 Knipe households in Tullynichol. James Knipe had plot 13 which was just over 3 acres; Arthur had plot 14  -7 acres; Joseph plot 16 - 3 acres & Mary Anne (probably a widow) had plot 17 - 6 acres. These properties were all beside each other and the families are surely related. The properties today are up a dead end lane off the Tullysaran Lane, Portadown, Co Armagh BT61 8HE.

4 Knipe properties in Tullynichol in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Ballymartrim/Tullynichol/

Likewise 4 in 1911 (one incorrectly indexed as Knife).

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Ballymartin/Tul…

Probate abstracts on the PRONI wills site. Some of the wills are on-line, some are in PRONI in paper format.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/search-will-calendars

Letters of Administration (with the Will annexed) of the personal estate of Arthur Knipe late of Tullynicholl County Armagh Shoemaker deceased who died 16 December 1879 at same place were granted at Armagh to Frances Knipe of Tullynicholl aforesaid the Widow and the Principal Legatee.

Probate of the Will of Joseph Knipe late of tullynickle, Co. Armagh, farmer, who died 13 July 1894 granted at Armagh to James Neville, Ballymartrim, farmer. Effects: £55 10s 0d.

Administration (with the Will) of the Personal Estate of James Knipe late of Tullynickle County Armagh Farmer who died 6 July 1905 granted at Belfast to John Knipe Farmer Effects £22

Administration (with the Will) of the Estate of John Knipe late of Tullynickle County Armagh Farmer who died 11 December 1906 granted at Armagh to Thomas William Knipe Farmer.

Administration of the Estate of Anne Eliza Knipe late of Tullynickle County Armagh Widow who died 15 November 1910 at Armagh granted at Armagh to Thomas W. Knipe Farmer.

Administration of the Estate of Robert Miller Knipe late of Tullynickle County Armagh Labourer who died 22 January 1914 at The Infirmary Armagh granted at Armagh to Thomas W. Knipe Farmer

Probate of the Will of the late Bridget Knipe, Tullynickle, Co. Armagh, Married Woman, who died 15 May 1920, granted at Armagh, 9 December 1920 to Thomas Knipe, Farmer, the husband. Effects: £2.

Knipe Thomas of Tullynichol county Armagh farmer died 21 November 1938 Administration Belfast 13 April to Elizabeth Knipe the widow. Effects £291 5s.

Knipe John of Tullynichol Armagh county Armagh farmer died 6 December 1944 Probate Belfast 29 January to Edward Loughran farmer. Effects £51.

PRONI also have a lease dated 1856 D313/217:

Assignment of lease. Consideration £50. James Knipe, Snr, Tullynickle, Co. Armagh, and James Knipe, Jnr. Tullynickle, Co. Armagh.

1863 lease D889/1/388

Renewal for 20 yrs, by William Wallace, of Lisnafeedy, Co. Armagh, and Mary Wallace, his wife, Arthur, Joseph, Mary Anne and John Knipe, of Tullynichol, Co. Armagh, of 10 acres. English, Tullynichol. Rent £3. 12. 0.

Thank you for your help, Elwyn!

So it seems clear now that Jonathan Knipes b.1838 of Watervleit, NY is a unique individual born in Armagh, Ireland to Solomon and Susan Knipes. He has an interesting story that seems to end in 1873. The last documentary evidence is an 1874 City Directory for Troy, NY where he shared a residence with his mother Susan.

This sends me back to Jonathan Knipes of Rutland, VT. On his 19th of December 1873 marriage certificate, his birth details are entered as 1847 in Ireland to James Knipes. But on Jonathan’s death certificate from 12th of April 1919, his birth details are entered as 2nd of October, 1839 in Ireland to David Knipes.

Do you have any leads on a David or James who could be Jonathan’s father?

This David, born 1832, seems to be just a few years too young-

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Richhill/Derryhale/1018756/

Marlowe Knipes

Marloweknipes,

When there’s a discrepancy between a marriage certificate and a death certificate, I normally favour the information on the marriage certificate (unless you have reason to suspect the subject was giving false information). The information on a marriage certificate normally comes first hand from the person in question. On a death certificate it obviously has to be second or third hand information. Mistakes on death certificates are very common. So ages, places of birth and parents names are often wrong. The informant often never knew the deceased’s parents and instead of putting “not known” (which officialdom doesn’t like) they guessed. So I’d be inclined to believe that Jonathan born c 1847 had a father named James, rather than David.

I searched rootsireland but there are no other Jonathan Knipes/Nipes baptisms in the 1830s and 1840s other than the 1838 one I have given you. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t a Jonathan Knipe born c 1847, merely that the record is not on that site. Many Church of Ireland records have yet to be put on-line and a lot were destroyed in the 1922 fire in Dublin. (About 40% of their records were burned).

The David Knipes in Derryhale in the 1901 census you have provided the link to lived in the parish of Kilmore. Their records, start in 1820 and are on-line on rootsireland but there’s no Jonathan born to a David (or anyone else). Sorry I can’t give you any leads on this other Jonathan.