Lt Col William Henry THORNTON (1781 - 1848)

Hi Constance,

Thank you very much for your message. I have forwarded it to one of our volunteers who hopefully may be able to assist or advise in some way.

All the best,

Genealogy Support

Dear Constance

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Our volunteer in Carlow has contacted me and asked that I pass the information below to you.

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

-----------------------------------

There are two Thornton Marriages found in Corrigan papers on the web-site below.  I included the Walker/ Habit marriage as he might be connected to the wife of George Thornton but that is conjecture.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ir.../Urglin_Records_1.htm

June 5th 1817
Robert THORNTON to Mary HANBRIDGE
Urglin Co. Carlow MARRIAGE 

Urglin Co. Carlow Marriage

The birth marriage and death results for the Thorntons at Urglin are on-line in the Church of Ireland genealogical records on the Government site irishgenealogy.ie

Three more records below:

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlcar2/Carlow_1842.htm...See More

Carlow Slater's Directory 1842

www.rootsweb.ancestry.com

Dear Constance, I two have started to search for my Thornton ancesters. I stem from William Henry's second son Frederick for whom I have no unformation. My infomation on his mother Juana Maria di Perini born Portugal 1803, the forname seems to have Irishised over the years Joanna is that used on the Probated Will in 1849. I have bought  WHT's will in Email form from the National Arcive it is two pages of closely written hard to decifer hand writing,even when enlarged. I had hoped to learn the names of more of his children, possible names include your William henry and my Frederick as well as the unconfirmed Mathilda, Joseph and Sydney. Ifyou would like to try I could mail it. I have also managed to roughly  piece together  WHT's military service and would happly compare it to such information you may have , .Of Frederick's decendants I only have details of Mary (1850-1914) whomarried  1880 the Reverend Later Canon later Archdeacon John Healy (1850-1942) LLD Rector of Kells Co,Meath.They had ffive children Iris,Guy, Olive ,Eve Eleanor (186-1978) and Colum.Eve married 1908 the Rev arthur Meagher Cave(1884-1942) of Cork they had four children Mary, Vera Eleanor, (1914-1965),Stephen, guy and Rosemary. My mother Vera married 1939 David Ingles Campbell Robertson (1905-1978) Master Mariner they had two sons, me john stephen campbell Robertson (1940-  ) no children  and my brother David  Gordon Campbell Robertson(1941-  )  PhD Sydney Metalurgy who narried Ruth Docker they  now live in Rolla Mo USA and have two daughters and who in turn have two childern. I live in Stuttgart Germany, my mail adress  john1940@gmx.de I am in touch with relatives in Ireland, hoping this all helps and that you can help me fill in gaps and that we can both find more anout the 17th and  18th centuries.

I have just caught up with this message (25 Oct 2017). I am descended from William Henry Thornton through his third? son Robert Thornton who became an British Army surgeon, served in the Crimea and is buried on Jersey with his wife. Their eldst son, Hugh Thornton, was my great grandfather. I have compiled a biographical note for William Henry Thornton (sen) which I am willing to share plus located the Bill of Sale of 1865 for his and his widow's property in Palatine. If any are interested please let me know, in the meantime I have posted some info on County Carlow IPG.

Dear Harry

I would be very interested in any Thornton information you may have an if you wish can put you intouch

with other family members. Inparticular with Beryl McLeod who has an internet side for the whole family.

Where do you live. I live in Germany, Beryl in South Africa. and Constance  in Australia. there are decendants

in New Zealand and  the USA. Most of Fredericks decendants through his daughter lice in Ireland and  GB. The

only branch to do so as, apart from  Frederick a Doctor,,they all left with their Mother.

Hi Harry

How nice to have another branch of the family join in the conversation!  Robert was indeed the third son of William Henry Thornton snr.

I have looked at the County Carlow IPG but could not find your post.  I would be very interested to see your bigraphical note on WHT, and I may have material in which you would be interested. My sister and I engaged a researcher to dig into the British Army archives at TNA in London among the material that has not been digitised. While the material is copyright and we are restricted in reproducing it, the information has told us a lot that we would otherwise not have known.

We wondered if you might have family material passed down that adds to the formal records we can find in official documents? It would be wonderful if you do.

Do you have an account on ancestry.com? If so, perhaps we could start a conversation through its messaging facility and go from there.

Regards, Connie Chapman (author of the original post above)

Hello Constance

It is good to make contact. I did my original research on the Thorntons back in 1995/8 which included days at the NA in Kew, the Land Registry in Dublin and the Local Studies Library in Carlow. Also my grandmother who was the daughter of Hugh Thornton, a grandson of William Henry Sen, kept some photographs of her parents and grandparents - she was brought up by her Thornton (Robson) grandmother.

Ancestry (I do not have an account) came along after I had completed what I wanted although the career of William Henry Thornton eluded me, that he went to Australia may explain that and I would be very interested to know how and when he  did that.

I have just sent an email to John Robertson with some of my information on William Henry Thornton Sen., mainly his miltary career. My stuff also includes transcripts of deeds relating to WHT's properties in Urglin if you are interested and do not have them already.

I can let you have my email if you wish. I live in Armathwaite, Cumbria, the Hawkins line comes from Devon.

Harry Hawkins

Hello Constance

I have spent a couple hours chasing William Henry Thornton Junior and I am 90% certain now he is William Henry Thornton who was gazetted Ensign in 3 October 1835 in 89th Foot when he was 17yrs 2mths (Hart’s 1846). In 1845 he was Captain in the 11th Foot (North Devonshire) and 1851 but not in 1852 so assume he had left or been killed. According to Elizabeth Longford in her book Wellington: The Years of the Sword, p 22, when Wellington was gazetted Ensign on 17 March 1787 he was just 2 months short of his 18th birthday and she goes on to say that there many boys younger than Wellington higher up the ladder. S

I found that the 11th Foot was stationed in Australia from 1845-1857 so that could be how WHT Jt got there. Is this correct?

Harry

Hi Harry

It would be a great idea to correspond by email. 

WHT junior transferred from the 89th Regiment to the 11th Regiment in 1845 and came out with the 11th Regiment to Australia in late 1845, arriving in Hobart (Tasmania) on 30 December 1845. He had various postings while in the Antipodes (including a period on Norfolk Island).  He resigned his commission in 1851 and settled in Australia - the family oral tradition is that he was to go to back to England in the army but resigned his commission to stay in Australia.  I have a lot of material about his army career which I am still in the process of sorting, but happy to share with family.  

Does your family still have the photos you refer to? I am trying to do a pictorial family tree and would love a copy of any that you may still have. We have photos of portraits of Willam Henry Thornton senior and both of his wives if you are interested.

And I would be interested in the other material you have about WHT too, and may have material you would be interested as well.  

Connie

Constance

I am a direct decendant of your WHT snr through WHT jnr who came to Australia with the !! regiment of foot (one and only regiment).  The !!th were sent to the then Colony of New South Wales because the 99th Regiment were becoming unruly.  

WLT resigned in about 1852 and settled in Australia.  He was appointed a Magistrate of the Colony by the Govenor and was sent to the coastal town of Kempsey.  Later he was appointed Coroner.  Some newspapers reported that he was instrumental in developing a colder climate variety of sugar cane.  This probably stems from his time in the West Indies as an officer in the West Indian Regiment.  He married an expatriate in WI.  WLT spent time as the military commander of Launceston.  His brother Archibald came to stay with the family in 1848 by died soon after. Archie is intered in Launceston.  

His son William Henry Lindsey Thornton was a noted pastroralist in central Queensland holding a half share in a lease of 6 million acres called Tower Hill.  He also discovered a gap in the Great Dividing Range outside the port of Townsville named in his honour as Thornton Gap.  This allowed products from central and north Queensland to be conveniently exported from Townsville.  WHLT was also a noted horse and cattle breeder.  He judged at many agricultural shows up and down the east cost of the continent.

I have compiled a family tree in excel which gives many of the local BMD documentary references. 

Reply by email and I will attach the file to a reply.

Dear Bill

How wonderful to hear from you!

We are also descended from WHT jnr, through William Henry Lindsey Thornton and his daughter, Kathleen Olive.  How are you descended from WHTjnr? 

My sister and I have been doing a lot of family history research and have a lot of the army records for WHT jnr before he left the army, but have found it hard to find much about him after he left the army. You sound as if you have a lot of general family knowledge about him and we would love to learn about it!  We live in Western Australia, which makes it harder for us to find out about local history in NSW.

Do you (of any of your relatives) happen to have a photo of WHT jnr you would be willing to share - we have been hunting for one for ages with no success.

You did not include your email address in the post or I would have contacted you on it. 

I very much look forward to hearing from you

Connie

Hi All.

I am somewhat distantly related to WHT1781, through WHT1817.

Below, please find a newspaper article about William Henry Lindsey Thornton 1842-1932, a son of WHT1817.  This article was published in the "Cairns Post" ofr 19/Dec/1925, an electronic version of which can be found at  https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/40519047 :

THORNTON OF TOWER
HILL.
WELL KNOWN NORTHERN
PIONEER.
SETTLEMENT OF DOTSWOOD.
ln the record of splendid names of
North Queensland pastoral pioneers not
one is more lustrous than that of Wil-
liam Henry Lindsey Thornton
of Tower Hill. He came to
Queensland in 1861, sixty-four years ago,
and in 1862 took over the management
of Dotswood station. lt may be safely
assumed that Mr. Thornton is not young.
He came to Australia, in 1845, which is
80 years ago ; but to look at him who
would think he was even that age? A
smart, spare, keen man, straight as a
lance, and about middle height; he looks
good yet for a gallop over the ranges of
the North or for a day's hard work on
a cattle camp. But I saw him in the
North about 47 years ago, and there is
a change. In those days of 1878 Mr.
Thornton was a splendid horseman,
lean, tanned, and wonderfully active.
Few in Queensland, if any, are better
judges of horses or cattle, and few bet-
ter know and understand the North,
writes Spencer Brown in thc "Courier."
FIGHTING FOREBEARS.
lt will be noticed that the Lindsey in
Mr. Thornton's Christening names is
spelt with an "e." His grandfather
Lindsey on the maternal side was Com-
missary General in the West Indies, a
distinguished soldier and administrator
and the paternal grandfather fought all
through the Peninsula War, including
Toulouse, Vittoria, and thc Pyrenees
and married a lady-in-wating at the
Court of Portugal. Mr. Thornton's
father was born in the palace at Lisbon.
His grandfather was badly wounded in
the battle of the Pyrenees, having been
in command of a Portuguese legion to
which he was appointed by thc Duke of
Wellington, and he died in Hongkong in
1848. As already stated, Mr. Thornton
came out in 1845 with his father, who
was a captain in the army, and was in
charge of a vessel which brought 200
convicts, and joined the 11th Regiment,
the old Devons, at Hobart in about
November, 1845.
DOTSWOOD AND TOWNSVILLE
Arriving in Queensland in 1861, Mr
Thornton decided for the bush. Mr.
Phil Summer, with his party, had taken
up country on the Burdekin. The party
included Edward Cunningham, Michael
Miles, Stenhouse, and Christie Alling-
ham, most of whom were well-known in
the North. Cunningham and Alling-
ham were there in my time, that is, in 18?8.
The last named was a brother of Wi-
liam and Johnston Allingham. The
party included Dotswood in their hold-
ings, and in October, 1862, or 63 years
ago, Mr. Thornton joined them with the
cattle. The morning after his arrival
the youngster was put in charge of the
station, and had the usual rough experi-
ences of the men who laid the founda-
tions of pastoral life in those latitudes.
It was hard work with the cattle, and
it was necessary to be watchful of the
blacks, who in many parts of the coun-
try were by no means amiable. Mr
Thornton found the pass to the coastal
area now known, as Thornton's Gap, and
that opened a short route to Cleveland
Bay, where Townsville now stands. In
1863 he was on the beach, the wonder-
fully fine stretch of yellow sand where
Cleveland Bay rolls blue waters and
lacey foam to the feet of the fine city
now of 24,000 people, the capital of the
North. Townsville in those days was
scarcely a name, probably it was not
even put on the map as a compliment to
Robert Towns, the Captain Towns who
ran his ships round Cape Cleveland to
the roadstead sheltered by Magnetic Is-
land, and who started cotton planting
on the fertile lands between Ross Creek
and Ross River. Only lately Mr
Thornton and I talked over the later
days when I was there, though really a
man who did not arrive until 1878 was
more or less of a new chum. But we
both knew Bohle, the engineer from
whom the Bohle River is named, and
who gave me letters of introduction to
James Gordon and Andrew Ball when
I came to Queensland. Mr. Thornton
knew them in earlier days, and also the
Ross from whom Ross River and Ross
Creek are named. And many more
he mentioned, and old memories were
revived. One of the names discussed
was that of Robert Christison, but he
was more of a Bowen than a Townsville
man, and he selected Poole Island for
the meatworks to operate; where he had
formed a company. As stated in my
"Memories," Mr. Thornton was a mem-
ber of the company, and he showed me
last week his scrip, or certificate of
shares, and the ominous notice of
liquidation.
TOWER HILL.
After nearly four years on Dotswood,
Mr. Thornton went to Tower Hill,
which then belonged to the same firm,
Hervey and Summer, and later on, took
over the station. He converted it into a
fine property between 1866 and 1901,
selling out in the last mentioned year,
and his name became well-known
throughout Queensland in his first ten
years there. The Tower Hill cattle were
good, but cattle raising was, as now, not
always very profitable ; but the Tower
Hill horses were always profitable. The
late owner of Tower Hill is one of the
old school, and most of his contem-
poraries have passed away. Some of
the names will bring to his mind the
older generation—the Allinghams at
Barrett Vale and Disraeli, Henry Rourke
who in 1877 was at Dotswood, W. A.
Vanneck at Denham Park—later, I think
Lord Huntingfield and well known in
the Lockyer district. William Hann at
Maryvale, the Whites at Ravenswood,
thc Annings at Reedy Springs, Scott
Bros. at Arthur's Plains and other
places, Johnston Allingham at Spring
Lawn, John Stevenson at Aberuthven,
the Romes at Blackdown, Edkins at
Mount Cornish—which is getting away
south—W. Looker at Stainburn, and the
Christisons at Lammermoor. But, bless
us, one might fill a page of these well
remembered names of North Kennedy
and Mitchell. As a fact, Mr. Thornton
must have some sadness in looking down
the avenue of the splendid years of the
late sixties and the seventies. Thc trees
are tombstones ; yet there is the know-
ledge that the pioneers well and truly
laid the foundation of Queensland's pas-
toral greatness, and they will not be soon
forgotten. Yet Mr. Thornton is cheery,
and as they say of another notable, "still
going strong."
PRODIGAL AND MANDRAKE.
lt is a long call from thc days of
Prodigal to those of Mandrake, the last
named being the very handsome chap on
which Mr. Thornton won a Townsville
blue ribbon in recent years. Mandrake
was a rather difficult horse to manage.
Mr. Thornton carried the reins in his
left hand, not a rein in each hand, as
we see the police at the Exhibition; and
like Colonel Venn King, when mounted
he seems to be part of the horse, or like
the Centaur of old. Mandrake was
bought by Mr. Rodgers, an Indian ship-
per, for a good round sum. The horse
was by Mr. Thornton's Centennial from
Madame by Le. Beau by Sir Hercules
from Blue Bonnet. Madame was from
a mare owned by Mr. Tom Rusden, of
Shannon Vale, near Glen Innes. "Now
I'll tell you something about "Prodigal"
—bred by Mr. Haly at Tanbinga, and by
the imported Arab Beeza, and to which
horse Mr. Harry Bracker lately referred.
"Prodigal was not owned by George
Rankin when he did the best of his rac-
ing, but by John Rankin, a brother.
Mr. Thornton tells me that Mr. Rankin
was on Bowen Downs station, and then
manager of the cattle station, Mount
Cornish. Prodigal belonged to a man
named Smith, known as "The Duke,"
because of an aristocratic nasal contour;
and he gave the horse to a girl who was
working on Bowen Downs, and she sold
it to a jackaroo on Mount Cornish for
£18. "Rankin found out through me
what Prodigal could do, for he beat a
good horse of mine." Mr. Thornton
continued, "and he got him from the
jackaroo, giving a very good horse in
exchange." In one race at Randwick,
Prodigal ran a dead heat with a horse
owned by John Tait, and Tait would not
divide. In the run off Prodigal won.
And now, when I could give pages more
about Mr. W. H. L. Thornton and peo-
ple and horses. I must conclude—but
voting Queenslanders should put at the
back of their heads the name of this
most worthy and distinguished pioneer.
One son fought in the South African
War, another in the Great War, and W.
H. L. Thornton finds fault with the
almanac in that he was not able to join
them. At present he is on a visit to his
daughter, Mrs. J. C. Young, at Sunny-
bank.

Below is the obituary of WHT1817 from  http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article14557176 :

Colonel William Henry Thornton, of the 11th

Imperial Regiment, died at the residence of his

daughter (Mrs. F. R. Peel), Woolwich, on Friday.

He was a son of the late General Thornton, of the

Peninsular War, and had reached the advanced age

of 85 years. An Irishman by birth, he enlisted in

the British Army as ensign, and gradually advanced

in rank. After a brief service in the West Indies,

where he married Miss Lindsay, the deceased with

the rank of captain came out to New South Wales,

in command of the 11th Imperial Regiment, which

was located for a time at the old Sydney Barracks,

Wynyard-station. Upon the completion of the

Victoria Barracks Captain Thornton transferred his

troops to Paddington. Subsequently he left with the

11th for Tasmania. He was afterwards raised to the

rank of major, and upon the regiment being ordered

home, some years later, the deceased gentleman re-

signed his command and retired with the rank of

colonel. Following upon his retirement from

military life the late colonel left Sydney for the

Macleay River, in which district he engaged in

pastoral pursuits for some years. He also subs-

equently filled the dual positions of coroner and police

magistrate in the district. For the last 15 years he

has resided in the suburbs of Sydney with his son-in

law and daughter (Mr and Mrs. F. R Peel). Mr.

W. H. L. Thornton, the well-known pastoralist of

Queensland, and Mr. R. F. J. Thornton, of Cool-

gardie, W.A., are sons of the deceased colonel.

These three generations of William Henry Thorntons all have memorials in FindAGrave.com

Kind regards,
Robyn Morley

I have attached a chart of my relationship to WHT1781 who is the "great grandfather of the husband of my 2xgreat-aunt" ...

Hi Robyn

How wonderful to hear from you! My sister and I have long wanted to make contact with the Rudder side of the family tree!  We were aware of Annie Thornton's marriage to Eugene Rudder (and of their children, from birth records), but the Rudder family is so large and complex that we were not confident of going further with documenting it.

You mentioned communicating by email, which I think is a great idea, but did not include your email address. Mine is cechap@bigpond.net.au.  Can you please send me an email and we can take our discussion forward more easily that way.

Best wishes

Connie Chapman 

Hi Constance.  Mty email address is robjk881@gmail.com.
Looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards, Robyn Morley

Hi Constance

I stumbled onto your page whilst researching my family tree and specifically the Thornton family line.  My grand mother, Violet Whipp (Thornton) was the daughter of Henry Hanbridge Thornton, who was the son of Charles Thornton Sen (1832 - 1904) and Alice Thornton (Durham)

I have discovered that Charles Thornton Sen - initially worked in law enforcement before becoming a warder at HMAS Pentridge - Coburg, where he worked from the 1870s till his retirement in the late 1890s. Thornton died on the 31st December 1904 at the age of 72.  Henry's middle name was that of his grandmother Mary Thornton (Hanbridge).  Charles Sen had 4 son's and distributed his estate amongst them including a still existing bluestone cottage, Erindale located in the suburb of Coburg.  I tried adding the link previously but was not allowed, so hopefully I have been able to attach a photo of the Erindale property

Henry Thornton, my great grandfather was a coach builder in Leederville WA, its not clear if he and wife Lucy Thornton (Gray) came to Melbourne as a family or my grandmother came seperately.  

My family history research is only at the beginning as I now have some downtime and I knew nothing of my father's family and even less of my mothers, so I now have a miny project to keep my occupied

Please let me know if you find this helpful

regards 

David Whipp 

Hi David

I have done a bit of searching for you, and Charles Thornton is the son of Robert Thornton and Mary Hanbridge, who were married in the Urglin Parish Church in Carlow on 5 June 1817.  It is likely that Robert Thornton was part of the wider family of my ggggrandfather, William Henry Thornton, but we have not be able to find evidence that proves it (records were pretty sparse pre 1800!) If you have not already found it, the website IrishGenealogy.ie is a great resource.

What you may also find useful is the marriage certificate of Charles Thornton (attached). As his parents are named in it, you can see that it is definitely your Charles Thornton. Please check the name of his wife, however, which is not Alice (could she be a second wife perhaps?) There are many free resources in Australia for finding historic births, deaths and marriages, and it helps to know the name of both parents. Thornton Charles cert of marriage 1860.jpg

Good luck with your research. Let's hope we find the link between our branches of the Thornton family one day.

Cheers, Connie

Hi Connie

thank you so much for your message and family updates, all very interesting.  I will definitely explore the IrishGenealogy.ie site and also reconfirm if I have the correct Charles (Chas) Thornton and his marriage history, you may be right in that Charles remarried at some point.

again many thanks and if I have any updates I will be sure to let you know

regards

david

Hello David

I have recently seen your post regarding Charles Thornton. I am related to this part of the Thornton family via his older sister Alicia who is my great great grandmother. Her daughter Marianne Coleman travelled to Sydney shortly before her marriage to Joseph Edward Bind in 1885. 
I recently visited Carlow and the Urglin Church. 
I did get to meet some family members from the Coleman side of the family but haven’t had much luck with the Thornton side. 
regards Jenny

I happened to be looking for my Thornton ancestors (William Thornton, m. ca1840-50 Hannah Connor) when I came across something that might be of interest to the family of Lt Col William Henry Thornton (WHT1781):

"Frederick Augustus Carey, b. 31 Jan 1823, m. 7 Oct 1867, Sarah Julia, dau. of the late Lieut.-Col. Thornton, of Thornville, co. Carlow, Ireland"

From

A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Landed Gentry of Great Britain & Ireland, Volume 1, Bernard Burke, Sixth Edition, 1882. p. 270, under "Carey of Rozel".

Available on Google Books: books.google.ca/books?id=rh73K_M00b8C&pg=PP7#v=onepage&q&f=false

I don't think I'm related, but I believe the Lieut.-Col. Thornton  mentioned in Burke must be WHT1781.  Also attached is a biographical note concerning WHT1781 in case you haven't come across it.