Seeking White/Whyte family of Whitegate

Dear Mary

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out and apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I will have a look at this for you this evening and revert back tomorrow

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

Dear Mary 

I see that there are 2 Martin White records on rootsireland.ie. One of these in 1829 and the other in 1823. This is a subscription site, so I am limited in what I can see. Can I ask why you believe 1823 is the correct date if you are not sure as to the names of his parents?

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

Clare,

The birth date from his death record is Nov 9 1822.  I am in the process of obtaining a copy of his death certificate.  Family lore connects him to Whitegate and Derrainy in what was then Galway, now Clare.  I have posted in the Clare group as well. The 1823 baptismal record lists the date of birth as  Nov 8 1823.  Other than the location, I would suspect this is his record due to inaccuracy of remembering birth information at the time.  There is also a record for a Martin Whyte baptised Nov 30 1819, no birth date given.  I am looking for any info on the White/Whyte family of the area and a way to pin down if one of these is indeed my Martin.

Mary Lee

Hello Mary,

My name is Clare Horgan, my grandfather was Rody Whyte of Derrainey, Clonrush Whitegate.  Rody's Dad was Denis White and Denis father and mother was Rody & Anne White of Derrainy.  Denis died in 1881 around 60 years old making him born around 1821.  Can't find records

In the Tithe Apploments in 1830 have quiet a few White/Whyte's in the Dereney And Ballinahinch, in the clonrush parish. There is a Patrick, Matthew, Katty (husband Denis), Martin, Rody and James (James is from the townland of Knocketaine And Birchpark, clonrush).  Martin and Anne are names that come down in the family.  I don't know if your martin was cousins/relatives maybe of my denis???

I looked for Nevils in the area but only could come up with Nevins, which could be her family, spelling was not always right in records. I found names of birth records for Peter, Matthew, Andrews and Annes in that region of Clare and Galway, different times though.

In my search I found a James & Eleanor Whyte from Derrainy buried in 1812 & 1819, headstone made up by son Matthew.

Hope this helps.

Clare

Clare, thank you for your efforts.  I am doubting that the Martin Whyte baptismal record I found is my Martin.  After checking rootsireland, more children where baptised in Loughrea.  Family rumor had Martin born in Dereney and that his mother's maiden name was Macdermott.  He was also supposed to come from a family that was rather well off, "he rode to the hounds" was one comment.  It was also rumored that he was passed over for an inheritance because he was sickly as a child (he lived to 84) and given money to immigrate.  His children were: Mary, Mathilda, Dennis, Patrick, Mary (ii), John (i), Margaret, Anne, John (ii), Martin, and Dora.  Two of the girls, Mary (ii) and Dora, supposedly visited Ireland and met with family (this would have been before 1911).  I know nothing about any family in Ireland.  He was supposed to have a brother Matthew who immigrated and settled in Kentucky and there was a Peter White (immigrated to Iowa) who may have been a brother or a cousin.  According to Peter's death notice, his father's name was Thomas White and Peter was born in Whitegate.  Peter married Sarah Conroy of Woodford.  Sarah's parents where Patrick Conroy and Mary Kilroy both of whom immigrated to Ottawa, LaSalle county, Illinois.  Martin, Dennis, John, and Anne are names in the family.  Another relative who immigrated to Chicago was a cousing, Anne "Annie" White born 21 May 1864 in Galway, Ireland (parents John & Katherine Costello White).  She came over about 1883 and married a Michael J Dempsey (25 Dec 1867 Galway).  She described my great grandmother as "lace curtin Irish".  Another relative on the Madden side was Martin Madden Hogan born 1849 Ireland.  He was here by 1873 when he married in Buffalo NY.  I mention him because there a several Hogan families in the area as well.  I don't know if any of this helps you or not.  I really would like to make a connection with family in Ireland and/or others related to these families.  Attached is a map I found on line somewhere (and can't find again to cite source).

Mary Lee

Hi Mary,

Sorry, not used to the message board.  Can't find your attachement.  You are most likely right about Martin not my relative, maybe way back there is a connection.  Like you my Whytes were well off too, our family comment "is that had the first slated roof west of the shannon" : ).  Thanks for the info  I did see Anne's family on my search attached (I think) is a gravestone of there with John and Catherine (nee Costello) on it.  I believe John was married before to an Anne Costello (maybe a sister of Catherine's)  I believe she died and John married then Catherine.  May I am making it fit to fit in the Denis and Rody also on the gravestone. This Denis and Roger would not be a direct linage with mine.  

Also yes, I see that a Mary Hogan might be a mother of other cousins.  So little time so much to do.  If I find anything to do with your White's/Whites I will let you know.

Clare

Clare,

I assume you have seen this:  http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=…; listing Matthew, Martin and Roderick.  I wonder if any estate records are available.  Do you know if the church records from Derrainey or Whitegates are on rootsireland?  I feel there is a connection of our families.  I couldn't attach the map so I sent it to your email.

Mary Lee

Hello Mary,

Yes indeed I have seen the land estate papers.  I can't go as far back as I would like to to see if indeed I am related to Matthew of Ballycorban but I think I Roderick and Denis might been mine but can't be sure. : )  As that area was in Galway until the 1890 and then went to Clare.  The parish is Clonrush but it is not define as that in rootsireland it would be in both East Galway and Clare.  In Galway I have found Whites in Ballinakill, Woodford, Portumna 2 and Loughrea in Clare the only Whytes I would be looking for is in Whitegate Mountshannon.  Births are only in Clare for now but marriage should be up in a few months I have been told. 

Clare,

Checking Mount Shannon/Whitegate I did find a baptismal record for Peter John White b 30 Mar 1875 to Thomas and Mary Hogan White.  I also found one for Martin Madden Hogan b 12 Nov 1849 parents were Thomas Hogan and Judith Madden.  I wish there were records before 1846.  Was there not a church before then?  Could that have been why there are records at Loughrea?

Mary Lee

Hi Mary,

In some places in Ireland the RC church records were not recorded until 1870.  It was not a prior it for the church, some did and some didn't and for some priests they did not think it was a good thing to have records untill much later.  Church of Ireland records are better.  I hope when the marriage records come online soon they might help get back a few more years.  Census taking started in 1813-1815 in Ireland but that was a disaster.  Next time was in 1821.  After that they were taken every 10 years.  From 1821-1851 the records got destroy in a fire and the Four Courts in Ireland in 1922 (Civil War)  1861-1891 census paper was pluped by the government and the paper was reused.  The 1901 census is our earliest census recording for the whole country. So sad and frustrating.  And they didn't really take any death records as death is not a scarament.

I am unsure why they were found in lots of different parishes.  Will have to find that one out.

Hopefully we with find out somethings together.

Clare

Dear Mary,

I hope this email finds you well?  I was surfing the next and I found on rootschat a post from you saying you had a hand drawn map of whitegate.  I was hoping if would send me a copy of it I would love to have as I believe the Rocky White, is Rody White my ggg grandfather.  Let me know if you are able to help me.  Thanks a million! Clare

might like to compare that hand drawn map with Coffey Famine Map - has Dereny with Rody and Denis Whyte houses with Red Jack Minogue, John Kennedy and Julia Minogue between them

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202665204865517&set=pcb.10202665206065547&type=1&theater

It is super!  I will have to go to Derrainey and see what is left.

Hi Mary & Clare

This link might also be useful - Griffith's Valuation

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&PlaceID=269223&county=Galway&barony=Leitrim&parish=<b>Clonrush</b>&townland=Derrainy

RODERICK of Dereney

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doPlaceSearch&Submit.x=31&Submit.y=10&Submit&freetext=Clonrush&countyname=Galway&baronyname=&unionname=&parishname=Clonrush

Census 1901 & 1911

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/townlands/index.cfm?fuseaction=TownlandsInCivil&civilparishid=999&civilparish=Clonrush&citycounty=Galway

 ps "Today of course, Clonrush Parish (Whitegate) is situated in the County of Clare and the Province of Munster and its northern boundary touched the border os Galway. This was not always so. From c. 1400 A.D. to 1899 it was regarded as a Connaught parish even though it was always in the Diocese of Killaloe which is predominantly Munster." For a fantastic account of the Parish, its people and the hurling get a copy of "History of Galelic Games in Whitegate and Mountshannon Co. Clare1825-1984 by Paddy Madden.

http://www.inarchive.com/ie/l/library.ie/6311201/2012-01-22-description/323/Clare_County_Library_All_Locations/

plenty more if you're interested

This is great!  I will have to looking for a copy of Paddy Madden's book.  Thanks, clare

This is great!  I will have to looking for a copy of Paddy Madden's book.  Thanks, clare

dates of birth may sometimes appear inaccurate and may indeed be but there was a practice in a period of high infant mortality of naming a child by the same name as a pre-deceased infant even going so far as to place a 1 after the forename. I've also found another record of a John White which suggests he was born around 1819. Many of the family names you mention also appear in the townlands of Clonrush (Whitegate) provided in link.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Clare/Drummaan/Garryeighter/1085601/

Salmo,

Thanks.  I have been looking at the census records as well as baptism, birth, Griffiths and the Tithe books.  I have found other families from this area who have the same migration patterns in the US as my family, so I have been keeping track of the ones I come across as well as the baptism records from Rootsireland.  Based on naming patterns my best guess for Martin's parents would be Denis and Matilda and Margaret's to be Patrick and Mary.  Family lore suggests that Martin was bitter about being passed over for an inheritance (or maybe leases) because he was sickly in his youth.  I don't know if that would affect his naming pattern.  Someone in his family was named John because they used that one twice as well as Mary.  Do you know what the pattern was if both fathers or mothers had the same first name?  What if the oldest brother's name was the same as the father's?   The John born in 1819 sounds like a good bet for a brother.  Do you know what his parent's names were?

Thanks again!

Mary Lee

Hi Mary

If "Family rumor had Martin born in Dereney and that his mother's maiden name was Macdermott" is true I should be able to track this down from the McDermott's side as we have a family tree reportedly going back if I can get sight of it!

There was never a problem with son's called after father's as a simple nickname or ?g (Jnr in English) could be slipped in to distinguish who you were addressing.

The John born in 1819 sounds like a good bet for a brother but this was from the 1901 census and this man lived alone so no idea of parents names.

here are some useful leads from O'Donovan http://places.galwaylibrary.ie/asp/fullresult.asp?id=12716

for map in 1840's http://places.galwaylibrary.ie/maps/#M233%7CLX91644Y61189%7CS0.3640733%7CI9sl%2B8sl%2B10sl%7CWiCddX8Y7W316H220Vt%7CWfCbbX7Y41W265H496VtI8OsD10%2B288%2B308%2B149%7CWxCaaX48Y45W284H321VtI8E3981DslT0%7CFx

Dereney ~1840's http://places.galwaylibrary.ie/maps/#M233%7CLX91644Y61189%7CS0.3640733%7CI9sl%2B8sl%2B10sl%7CWiCddX8Y7W316H220Vt%7CWfCbbX7Y41W265H496VtI8OsD10%2B288%2B308%2B149%7CWxCaaX48Y45W284H321VtI8E3981DslT0%7CFx

Thanks, I will look at that info.  I am also going to try matching the 1840's Ordinance Map with the handrawn one.

Hi Mary I think we emailed on ancestry about the Goonan's. I am now starting to look at Thomas Goonan or Goonane who married a Mary White. Thomas was a brother to my ggg grabdfather Michael Goonane. Both had children migrate to Australia. We can find little on the Thomas or Mary. I have assumed they lived in Ballyhinch or nearby as that is where Michael lived. There were whites there also. Do you gave Alfie obriens cd with the houses on it? I was only yesterday trying to work out any clues to the whites and have seen these messages today. I had seen Roderick's name. If you or the other participants in this conversation have heard of this couple let me know. They had two daughters I know of Margaret and Winifred. I wonder if their names match any in the White trees. Both migrated to Australia. Rumour has it they had one other sibling. Dates would be Thomas and Mary born early 1800 Thanks Sue

is clareahorgan still available to contact? Doing research on the White's from Derrainy and would be great to have contact from her. Sue in Melbourne Australia

Wondering if maryleef is still monitoring this thread.  Your post piqued my interest "Another relative who immigrated to Chicago was a cousing, Anne "Annie" White born 21 May 1864 in Galway, Ireland (parents John & Katherine Costello White).  She came over about 1883 and married a Michael J Dempsey (25 Dec 1867 Galway)."  

Annie White Dempsey is my second great aunt, her brother Thomas my great grandfather. Would love to talk with you and figure out our connection.  Thanks!

Ann Healey Bowen

Ann,

I am beside my self in excitement to hear from someone connected to my White's!  Ann White Dempsey was some level of cousin to my grandfathter.  He spent time with the Dempsey's as kids and my mom remembered seeing them on occassion.  I have pictures of my grandfather with Patrick & Kathleen.  My gggrandfather Martin White born circa 1823 came to US abt 1848 thru NY port from there to Buffalo NY area & then to Cincinnati where he married Margaret Madden in 1853.  They moved to Rock Island Il, Memphis (where Margaret's brother James lived), Davenport Iowa & after the Chicago fire to Chicago (Martin was an out of work plasterer).  They eventually bought a home on what is now Altgeld St in the Lakeview area of Chicago.  (it only recenlty passed out of the family).  Their daughter Anne Elizabeth White married William John Lane.  My grandfather was their son Francis Edwin Lane (Ed).  I would be happy to share info with you.  I have not determined who Martin's parents were (mother's maiden McDermott).  I have done my DNA & am on Ancestry.

Mary Lee

Thanks for the reply Mary Lee. It will be interesting to see if we can puzzle this out together.  My username on ancestry is ahbowen. I too have done the DNA test -- just me on ancestry, but I have my dad's data on 23andme, ftdna and gedmatch.

If you look at the White's on my ancestry.com tree, you will see I made a few leaps to get to the Mountshannon info, so being related to your Martin just up the road is great news.

My tree is public, so here is a link to Annie White Dempsey:

http://person.ancestry.com/tree/11876478/person/-380374732/facts

Perhaps we'll continue the conversation over there!

Ann

Dear Ann, Mary, Salmo, Suzanne, & Claire:

Many thanks for the wonderful work that you are all piecing together with the White Family of Mountshannon.

If any of you are interested, the Chronicles tab at the top of the page is a place where you can share about people, buildings or timeline (events).  A profile on one of the ancestors would be great, and would certainly attract others who may also be connected.

Please contact me if you have any questions.  Great work!

Kind regards,

Jane Halloran Ryan

Volunteer Coordinator

"I have not determined who Martin's parents were (mother's maiden McDermott).  I have done my DNA & am on Ancestry"

Hello Ann

The White's of Dereny are from the ancient parish of Clonrush (Whitegate), and lived in a very unique landscape, close to the Dereney River on it's way to the Shannon, well set away from the hustle and bustle of life today. The families are all still there, the White's, Maddens and Mc Dermott's so you will find little has changed since some of our ancestors emigrated. Your gggrandfather Martin White's mother was a MacDemott which intrigues me as she was an "Ultach" and would only have reached the parish from Ulster in the 1780's. The family settled and started a mill in Derrygoolan. America and Australia would have held promise for her children. What I find interesting is that my father always visited the White's of Dereny and was met with such coutesy and civilty above the norm - now I know why "is fearr beagán den ghaol ná mórán den charthanas"

keep in touch

http://homepage.eircom.net/~eastclareheritage/GraveswthoutGrace.pdf

Hello all! :) 

I am so suprised and excited to find other relatives of the White Family!! Martin White and Margaret Madden White are my 2 times great grandparents on my mother's side of the family. Martin and Margaret had my great grandfather Martin J White who had my grandmother who had my mother! I grew up with my grandmothers sister in our home (my mothers aunt and my great aunt) who was named Margaret White. When I was a child she spoke of her grandfather and of Whitegate County Gallway Ireland frequently. She passed away in 2005 at age 94. I often thought about it and when i started my family tree on ancestry.com I decided to research and was shocked to find this forum! I'm not sure this message will reach anyone as I see the last message was posted about a year ago but I thought I would give it a shot! I have a few photos of both Martin and of Margaret that I found through ancestry and if you are on the site as well I'm assuming you might have found them.

Take care

Colleen Marie <3

Colleen,

I'm sorry I didn't respond to this last year!  I must have missed the notification in my emails.  I would love to share information with you!  Is your mother Charlotte Dahlgren?  My grandmother remembered some of the White family, in particular Elsie Leahy of Davenport, Iowa.  In the past I did communicate with Katherine White on family information.  The photos I got from the Hogan line, you should have seen me that day.  I was so excited, because I had never had photos of them before.  Please use a better email (mlfoley317@gmail.com) to contact me.

Mary Lee

To all those "Family rumor had Martin born in Dereney and that his mother's maiden name was Macdermott.  He was also supposed to come from a family that was rather well off, "he rode to the hounds" was one comment." & "lace curtin Irish".

Fascinated by refernece to lace curtain Irish in family history linked Margaret Macdermott. A recent development that will interest all McDermott descendants is the recent article by Lorna Siggins in the Irish Times https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/archaeologist-finds-200-yea…

Archaeologist finds 200-year-old Galway ‘refugee camp’

‘Ultachs’ sold poor land after being forced south in sectarian linen industry war.

Traces of a “refugee camp” dating back some 220 years have been identified by an archaeologist on the slopes of south-east Galway’s Slieve Aughty mountains.

Community archaeologist Dr Christy Cunniffe believes he has found the location of temporary camps set up by “Ultachs” or Catholics who fled from the north in the 1790s to avoid persecution by bands of Protestant agitators known as the “Peep-O-Boys” or “Peep O’Day Boys”.

Dr Cunniffe believes the site is a “physical manifestation of what has existed in local folk memory for years” and “evidence of one the largest internal migrations” in recent Irish history.

The first clues – a series of circular ditches dug around hut foundations on land owned by Woodford farmer Patrick McGann – were initially thought to date to the Bronze Age, or to settlements for summer pasture, Dr Cunniffe explains.

Further consultation with archaeologists about the cluster of features then pointed to the existence of an extensive refugee camp, he says.

Up to 7,000 Catholics are believed to have been displaced from the Armaghcounty area, after competition within the linen industry culminated in the Battle of the Diamond on September 21st, 1795 near Loughgall.

An estimated 30 “Catholic Defenders” were killed, and many of their neighbours were burned out of their homes and fled to areas such as the Slieve Aughty mountains. The Peep-O-Boys, who claimed victory, were precursors of the Orange Order."

The Mc Dermott's operated a mill on the Dereney River and it is possible that their skills acquired in the Linen Industry is where the "lace curtain Irish" has its origin.

Now all we have to do is find out where we came from in Armagh!

Loughall some sources

Loughgall and Tartaraghan

Archdiocese of Armagh | County of Armagh

Variant forms of parish name:

Loughall

Tartaraghan

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0227

https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?county=Armagh&parish=…

http://www.igp-web.com/armagh/records.htm

plenty of records available after 1800 but........................