Patrick Sullivan and Mary Collins

Local volunteer contacted.

Roberta,

On the www.irishgenealogy.ie site under the church records section, there might be a few clues. On their marriage record of 1838, it gives Patt Sullivan's address as "Tinne", but if you look at the original record, it looks like "Lissane" to me. I could be wrong though. Lissane is a townland in Caheragh, Cork. Additionally, on that same website, there is a birth record for Mary Collins of Caheragh born 25 Dec 1818, and her parents are Patt Collins and Joa Sullivan. The suggestion that Mary might be from Lissane is perhaps accurate. Other than the fact that Caheragh and Aghadown are adjacent, I cannot speculate why their children's baptismal records are from Kilkilleen, Aghadown. 

Hi Roberta,

I am Frank Fahy Volunteer for the parishes mentioned, Careragh & Aughadown. I will check out your query within the next two days and get back to you with any info gained. Sorry for delay but I am quite busy but will find or make the time to deal with your query your query.

Roberta, 

There is a record for a Thoms Sullivan born N/R February 1844 in Kilkilleen, Augahdown with parents listed as Patrick (no surname) and Mary Collins. Sponsors are Patrick Hong and Mary Regan. This record can be seen on the free site www.irishgenealogy.ie under the church records tab. 

Carolyn and Frank THANKS to both of you. Frank - no worries on the delay - after well over 150 years, another few days is not a problem. Carolyn - good call on the fact that it looks like Lissane and thanks for finding Thomas and a possible Mary. I was picking the Irish records up again after a few years and now options are showing up for searching. I will do some more looking around.

Roberta from Minnesota

Hi Roberta,

had a few minutes to spare to have an initial look at the Marriage record of Pat & Mary in Caheragh Parish on 24 April 1838. The Townland name of Lissane is also recorded there.  By tradition and practice, the Bride is usually married in the Parish of their birth/baptism and at the time would have had to get permission to marry elsewhere. All this indicates indicates that Mary was born in Lissane and baptised & Married in Caheragh. I will check to see if I can find a Baptism record later tomorrow. 

By the way, in my first Post i mispelt Caheragh and this was an error but while the modern spelling is Caheragh, in the Church records, particularly in irishgenealogy.ie,  the name is spelled Caharagh and you will get very few or no results if you use the modern spelling,

I have found four Mary Collins Baptised in Caheragh Parish in the year span 1819 - 1823 but unfortunately, no Lissane or other address that could be deciphered as Lissane recorded.

Sorry for all the negative info but i only write up what I am sure of and do not speculate on what it might have been. I will continue to look for some time yet,

Frank - it is reality. 4 possible sets of parent is better than none. I still have not found any death records for them in the US. . . so there is hope that I make more connection. Let me know if you find anything else. 

Roberta

Hi Roberta, 

My mistake for not finding all five of the Mary Collins from Caharagh! I do see the four mentioned by Frank, but I wonder if two can be eliminated because they have addresses mentioned.."Cahaigh" for the 1823 record and "Kune" for the July 1821 record. While I know that the Irish naming conventions are not always accurate, I do think they hold some potential...the Jan 1821 record has Thomas for Mary's father's name, and her second son, according to you, was Thomas. I searched for Patrick's birth record between 1816 & 1823, also in Caharagh; and found two...1819 and one on 24 Apr 1821...and his father's name is Daniel, mother Mary Crowly. You state that their first born son was Daniel. I realize Patrick might not be from Carharagh...just thought I'd take a look.

I too have Caharagh roots.....in Dromore. Spent some time driving all over beautiful south west Cork this past May! I hope these possibilities give you something to go on.  

Hi Roberta,

Been extremely busy since last posting and currently on holiday in Paris with our daughter and heading for Lanzarote tomorrow for a few days.

Would you please email me after 22 Oct to remind me of your query. My apologies for delay in getting back to you.

Hi Roberta,

Had not heard from you although I asked to remind me on 22nd but anyway here I am again.

I cannot allow Carolyn's comment on the possibllity of eliminating the two Mary Collins go unchallenged because of what is clearly a transcription error being given on the transcribed record and the original entry in the Register apparently not even being looked at to see what is written correctly, incorrectly or just bad writing. The overriding factor in this and all genealogy research is to note that where a poorly written record is encountered or an incorrect transcription of where they live or other detail is given then one MUST revert to the fact that it is the Caharagh Register and the baptisms recorded on it are the records of Children from the Caharagh area/Parish. It is totally wrong to say one might eliminate two entries from consideration without every other possibility being looked at such as looking at the parents of one Mary Collins and searching for those parents having another child baptised and a more clear & correct hoime address being given.

In short, do not eliminate anybody with the same name and the same Parish you are looking for until all possibilities are exhausted.

I have not had the chance to do this over the past few weeks as I was away but hope to in the next few days and will let you know the outcome.

Frank, sorry I did not reply as requested. I had gotten a notification that there was a new message but when I logged in nothing was showing. Only just saw it with the latest message. I've not given up on anything but I have been working on confirming the descendent trees of Patrick and Mary's kids who I just matched with DNA. Big break through matching three of their children, 2 born in Ireland and one in Pennsylvania. Confirms the family group and all the paper trail. Once I'm through this I'm going to be able to do some triangulation to see if there are any other distant Sullivans or Collins another generation back that might help. Getting distant but I've been able to have my father and my aunts and uncle test which helps.

I really appreciate the reviews of the records. Very hard to look at them on screen when the transcripts are off. And I hope Paris was great! I was there in 1987 but have not made it back yet.  Roberta