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I'm looking for information on the FOGARTY family of my great grandmother Elizabeth FOGARTY and her sister Margaret FOGARTY from  Mitchelstown. The family story was that the sisters emigrated to San Francisco, California in 1866. I found out recently that there was an ad put in "The Search for Missing Friends" in 1873 by a Patrick LUDDY of Abington, MA indicating that Lizzie and Maggie were his "cousins." He indicates the last he heard of them was when they were at the Empire Hotel, San Francisco. He says they came from Glandagh, Michelstown. The sisters are in San Francisco by 1870 as they are both in the U.S. census. In 1900 U.S. census there is a William A. Fogarty living with the LUDDY family in Abington.

Five years ago I received a probable baptism record from the Mallow Heritage Center. An Elizabeth Fogarty was baptized 6/7/1849 in Mitchelstown Parish, parents Patrick and Mary Fogarty. Even though Elizabeth claimed to be born 1854, I believe this is her.  Her mother's maiden name was Mary RUSSELL. No record was found on her sister Margaret, believed to be a few years older than Elizabeth.

I am trying to find out if Elizabeth and Margaret had any other siblings and if this William Fogarty was their brother. Without having baptism information on Margaret, I don't feel like I can be completely sure this Patrick and Mary are Elizabeth's parents. I am also trying to find out what connection Patrick Luddy has to the Fogarty family.

On Origins.net I found a Patrick Luddy of Brigown, a Mary Russell of Brigown and assorted Fogarty's in the area. I need help in finding Margaret's baptism. The family story was that the sisters left because the father mistreated them? Sure wish I knew the story!  Thank you for any help that you can give to me, Cindy Barnhart, Texas

 

Cindy B

Sunday 24th Jun 2012, 05:51PM

Message Board Replies

  • Hi Cindy,

    It is very possible that that is the correct year of birth. Records were not always recorded very accurately.

    There are Roman Catholic church records for the diocese of Mitchelstown (Cloyne). These date from 1792 for baptismal records and 1822 for marriage records. You can find these at the National Library of Ireland, Pos. 4992; from 1845, Pos. 4993. If you have any difficulty, you could try writing to the parish priest for more assistance.

    It is possible that Margaret was baptised in a neighbouring parish, so it is worth checking this. Perhaps Luddy's were cousins or neighbours. You could check land records for this perhaps.

    You can information about the frequency of the name in the mid-19th century and any other variant spellings of the name here: http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/

    You could also try checking the land records called the Tithe Applotment Books (1823-38) or the later Griffith's Valuation (1848-64). Griffith's is freely available here: www.askaboutireland.com or here: www.failteromhat.com Failte Romhat has lots of other useful links you could try looking at. Tithe Applotment Books (1823-38). Microfilm copies of the books for all of Ireland are available at the National Archives of Ireland (NAI) http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy1/genealogy-records/tithe-applotment-books-and-the-primary-griffith-valuation/ or the Church of Latter Day Saints (LDS).

    The Tithe Applotment List might be of use to you, or at least interesting for you. These lists constitute the only nationwide survey for the period, and are valuable because the heaviest burden of the tithes to the Established Church, the Church of Ireland, fell on the poorest, for whom few other records survive. The information in the Tithes is quite basic, typically consisting of townland name, landholder's name, area of land and tithes payable. Many Books also record the landlord's name and an assessment of the economic productivity of the land. the tax payable was based on the average price of wheat and oats over the seven years up to 1823, and was levied at a different rate depending on the quality of land. For Parishes where the registers do not begin until after 1850, this information can be useful, as they are often the only surviving early records. They can provide valuable circumstantial evidence, especially where a holding passed from father to son in the period between the Tithe survey and Griffith's Valuation.

    Have you tried checking the Ellis Island records (www.ellisisland.org) or the Castle Garden records (www.castlegarden.org)? Generally, more information was given at the port of arrival rather than the port of departure. If you knew which city they arrived at, this could be a good place to find more information.

    1838-48 Reproductive Loan Fund records. Includes parish of Brigown. Over 5,000 names, with accounts of deaths and emigration. UK National Archives http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ T.91.

    There is a book by Tim Cadogan, called 'Tracing your Cork Ancestors', 1998.

    Please make sure you link anyone else in your family who is interested in their Irish heritage to our site - and indeed anyone else you know of Irish heritage.

    Kind regards,

    Sinead Cooney

    Genealogist (Ireland XO)

     

     

     

     

    Wednesday 27th Jun 2012, 03:18PM
  • Hi Sinead,

    Thank you for all the suggestions. I have looked at a few but need to cover the rest. I'm sure I'll have more questions for you! thanks for the help--Cindy

    Cindy B

    Wednesday 27th Jun 2012, 09:40PM
  • Hi Cindy

    This is outside of my area but I think it is possible that 'Glandagh' could possibly be Gearagh, County Limerick which is not far from Mitchelstown.  There are Fogartys in that area.  Hope this may help you in your search.

    Brenda

    Kildorrery Cork

    Sunday 1st Jul 2012, 10:53PM
  • Hi Brenda,

    Thanks for the tip! I took that information from the "Search for Missing Friends" book. I have to say I have not been able to find this "Glandaugh" anywhere. So I will look in Gearagh,co. Limerick. Thanks a lot! Cindy B

    Cindy B

    Sunday 1st Jul 2012, 11:57PM
  • Brenda,

    The only Gearagh I can find is in Cork and is about 17 miles from Mitchelstown. Am I looking at the wrong one? Because I can't find anything in Co. Limerick for Gearagh.  Cindy

    Cindy B

    Monday 2nd Jul 2012, 12:35AM
  • County Limerick Maps

    When there is a number following the townland name, it is only to distinguish it from other townlands with the same name.

    Geeragh

    Civil Parish: Kilbeheny
    Diocese:  
    Barony: Coshlea
    Poor Law Union: Mitchelstown
    Catholic Parish:  

    Hope this gets to you.  I had a job to find the place because I had the wrong spelling.

    Best wishes

    Brenda

     





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    Kildorrery Cork

    Tuesday 3rd Jul 2012, 09:18PM
  • Brenda,

    Thank you so much for sending me this information. I am going to concentrate in Co. Limerick. I would never have thought of this! Thanks for the help--hopefully I will find Margaret Fogarty and the rest of the family--Cindy

    Cindy B

    Tuesday 3rd Jul 2012, 10:06PM
  • Just found an amazing page on roots.com.  It shows a connection between the Luddys and the Fogartys. I think you will find it interesting. Brenda


    Burke-Ansley Two Great Families

    Entries: 82373 Updated: 2007-07-09 18:57:24 UTC (Mon) Contact: John Luddy Burke, Jr.

     

    Kildorrery Cork

    Tuesday 3rd Jul 2012, 10:45PM
  • Cindy

    There is a townsland Just outside of Mitchelstown called Glenduff. Perhaps this is the place that you are looking for. It is in Mitchelstown parish and is just on the Cork side of the Tipperary border.

    Breda

     

    Bnbnolan

    Wednesday 4th Jul 2012, 10:54AM
  • Breda,

    This is the way the information was stated in The Search for Missing Friends by Patrick Luddy:  "They come from Glandagh, near Mitchelstown, county Cork." My family has always insisted that Mitchelstown is where my great grandmother was raised.  Glenduff, Glandagh--are these pronounced roughly the same? I have no idea! Thanks!  Cindy

    Cindy B

    Wednesday 4th Jul 2012, 12:40PM
  • Brenda,

    Thanks for sending this! My Patrick Luddy in Massachusetts stated (in the U.S. census records)  he was born in about 1829-1830 so I think that maybe he is a cousin or possibly sibling to John Luddy who married Johanna Fogarty. In any case, here is a connection between Luddy and Fogarty that I really needed. Again, I appreciate all your help!  Cindy

    Cindy B

    Wednesday 4th Jul 2012, 12:47PM
  • I have a theory with regard to your Patrick Luddy. I have looked at the LDS site and I see that a MaryJ Luddy born to a Patrick Luddy and Catherine Fogarty married Patrick Regan in Whitman Mass in 1895. Is it possible that she is the same Mary J in the 1880 census with William Fogarty in the house. On the same site there is a Catherine Luddy, Fogarty who died in Whitman in 1913 and her parents are listed as being Thomas fogarty and Johanna Carroll. This is where I come in. On the rootsireland site I can see three children being born to the same couple Philip (1816 in Clogheen church) and Michael (1819) and William (1823) in Ballyporeen/Templetenny church. I live in Ballyporeen. It is in Co Tipperary and is 8 miles from Mitchelstown and probably 3 miles from Glenduff. There were also some Luddy families and very definitely fogarty families in the area at the time.

     

    BREDA

    Bnbnolan

    Wednesday 4th Jul 2012, 04:59PM
  • Hi Breda,

    I believe that you are right about Patrick Luddy and Catherine Fogarty. I found the records on the LDS site in regards to Catherine's death and Mary J Luddy's marriage to Patrick Regan.I went back and looked at the 1880 census and it shows Mary J as Patrick and Catherine's adopted daughter. (My initial post said William Fogerty was with them in 1900 but it was actually 1880 as he was married by 1900.) From the U.S. census records it is apparent that are many Luddy's in Plymouth Co., MA especially in Abington and Whitman (which appear just a few miles apart). I got on RootsIreland and I could not find a record birth/baptism  for a Catherine Fogarty with father Thomas and mother Johanna although I did find Philip, Michael and William. The only Catherine Fogarty I found was with father Stephen and mother Bridget Cummins in Mitchelstown in 1831. Did you find one for her? I have been unable to find a Elizabeth and Margaret Fogarty as sisters on RootsIreland which I just find odd.  I have a question for you. In the records I am finding in the U.S. everyone seems to be "cousins." Is that a general term used for a relationship? We usually say cousins when it refers to first and maybe second cousins. I really appreciate your help on all of this!!  Your user name is Bnbnolan--my mother's family was Nolan from Galway.   Cindy

    Cindy B

    Thursday 5th Jul 2012, 05:34PM
  • Hi Cindy

    You can e-mail me at bredanolan@eircom.net

     

    Breda

    Bnbnolan

    Thursday 5th Jul 2012, 06:16PM
  • Hi Cindy

    Just wondering if you had any success in tracing your Fogartys and Luddys or should we keep enquiring.  It may be of interest to you that the Luddys in Castlequarter, Kilbehenny, Co Limerick lived right across the river from the Luddys in Cooleregan, Mitchelstown, Co Cork.  The river is the dividing line between the two counties.  It seems that you need to look on both sides! 

    Regards

    Brenda

    Kildorrery Cork

    Monday 23rd Jul 2012, 09:33PM
  • Hi Brenda,

    Thanks for checking back in with me. To answer your question, I have not found them yet. I am questioning whether Margaret and Elizabeth were sisters. Very few Fogarty women in the 1845-1855 timeframe show up on Roots Ireland. My Elizabeth from Mitchelstown bap. 1849 with parents Patrick and Mary (no maiden name) Fogarty. The only Margaret Fogarty that comes close is Margaret Fogarty, bap. 1843, parents Patrick Fogarty and Mary Carsin. She was bap in Conahy, Co. Kilkenny. Guess although they are about 60 miles apart  it could be the same family since I really don't know Elizabeth's mother's maiden name (I was told it was Russell but not sure of that).  As far as Luddy, I found Patrick Luddy of Coolyregan, Mitchelstown, Cork like you did. So many Luddy's and I haven't been able to narrow it down yet to the one of the age found in Massachusetts....Cindy

    Cindy B

    Tuesday 24th Jul 2012, 12:36PM

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