John Dwyer 1802 - 1868

Hi Maureen,

Not much information yet but in answer to your question about Cowhouse, attached find map of Fermoy area showing Cowhouse almost directly below the name FERMOY on the map. I will have a look at any information I can find about Mary McCarthy but dont hold out much hope  of  much more than you have as I dont think local records go back much further than her possible marriage to John. Using your words as to her possible birth place as maybe being in a stable, I dont think her records would have been as well kept as others born in a stable at this time of year. 

Frank Fahy

Hi Frank,

Thank you so much for this information!  I so appreciate the map showing Cowhouse.  I thought perhaps that Cowhouse was a sort of stable for cows.  I asked on some other forum about Cowhouse, and no one seemed to think it existed. I didn't find it on google maps either. Do you know the year of your map, more or less?  As for the McCarthys: There is a a John McCarty, born about 1830 in Fermoy, living with a Dwyer relative in Massachusetts in 1850.  This might be a relation to Mary McCarty/McCarthy, who would be my John Dwyer's first wife.  Perhaps a nephew?   As for the Dwyers: Roger Dwyer, born 1825, in Ireland, lived in Fermoy before emigrating to Massachusetts in about 1848.  (Probably he was born in Fermoy.  I see that baptimsal records go back to 1828, so we wouldn't be able to find Roger's baptism.)  He is our John Dwyer's brother.  Also, we relate through Y-DNA and autosomal to a Dwyer fellow who has William John Dwyer, born 15 May 1814, County Cork, married 12 June 1842 in Fermoy, and supposedly died in Ireland.  From the written record I don't know how we match, but it is quite close according to the DNA.  This William John could be another brother to our John.  Or perhaps a frist cousin.  Hanora Dwyer, John's daughter (we believe she is his daughter from his marriage to Mary McCarthy.  Mary must have died before he emigrated to Boston) does show up in the baptismal records in Fermoy on 14 Dec 1828.  Thank you so much for your help!!  It feels like we are very close to making a breakthrough on my Dwyer family in Ireland.  Maureen McCarty (no relation to this Mary McCarty that I mention above!)

Sorry Maureen for delay in answering you but I have only just returned from a few days break and will try to find time to do some research over the next few days.

Frank Fahy

 HI Frank, Thanks for your message.  No rush.  I know this is a long term project.  I do have another question.  I see that John McCarty, born 1830, Fermoy, should show up in the baptismal records.  (He is not a relation to my Dwyers, but perhaps would lead us to learn more about Mary McCarthy Dwyer, who seems to be my GG grandfather, John Dwyer's first wife.)  Is there an index of Fermoy baptisms, or does one need to scan through all the baptisms for 1830 and years around that?  I keep adding the questions on for you.  My apologies for that.  I hope you had a good break, and whenever you have a chance to respond, it will be welcomed!  Best regards, Maureen

Hi Maureen, it probably would be quicker to check the information myself and if I find anything, I will get back to you with the info. No worry about adding the questions for me, it's finding the answers is the trouble but also the pleasure.
Will get back to you soon with or without the answers.
Frank

Maureen,

I think you must have it already but if you have not, attached find Baptismal entry for Honora of Cowhouse Fermoy., It is the 24th entry on left side of left page.

Not having much success in finding any further entries regarding John Dwyer or Mary McCarthy in the Fermoy area. Can find no record of marriage for them in the Diocese of Cloyne or Parish of Fermoy in ten years before the birth of Honora or years following and the possibility/probability  is that there was no marriage.

I will ciontinue to look bu it does indeed seem to be a dead end.

Frank Fahy

Hi Frank, Thanks for all your work on this!  I do believe my John Dwyer was born in the Dundrum area of Tipperary, and then moved to Fermoy.  There were a lot of evictions around the 1820s and 1830s in this part of Tipperary.  I am thinking it is possible the Dwyers moved to Fermoy, Cork after they were evicted, one by one.  Certainly a sizeable number of Dwyers left Fermoy for Massachusetts, especially during the Famine.  My guess is that Mary McCarthy died sometime after Hanora was born.  Obviously, since you have looked, there are no other children listed for John Dwyer and Mary McCarthy.  The map you found and attached: do you have a date on when that was drawn?  I haven't found Cowhouse on any other map of Fermoy.  Thank you for finding that! Best regards, Maureen

HI Frank, I do have a few questions on this same topic, when you have the chance.  Would Cowhouse be a separate village from Fermoy, or would it be more of a neighborhood of Fermoy?  Also, do you know the date on this map that you found?  It seems that Cowhouse no longer exists, but did during the period my family lived there.  Thanks much!

Maureen,

I live a few hundred yards from Cowhouse. It is not a placename that is used at all now. Very few people know about it at this stage. Townland names and boundaries in Ireland were fixed for the mapping of Ireland in the 1840s. Many placenames were amalgamated into a townland and from that time the townland name was used, in most cases. The other placenames were lost. Cowhouse is a bit different. The name was used in the late 19th century on some baptisimal records in the area, but not all. Cowhouse was an area with undefined boundaries, so whether or not a family were considered in Cowhouse was very subjective. Cowhouse was (is!) a rural area just on the outskirts of Fermoy town. Since the 1840s the town has grown out to meet it but the houses now in the area of Cowhouse are only a few hundred yards or less from the outskirts of the town. Knockanroe is another placename in the same area that I found on an old document, but nobody knows about it. It was amalgamated with Cowhouse (and maybe others) into Fermoy. On the opposite side, current maps show that I live in Curaheenduf. But nobody in the area heard of Curaheenduf and I haven't found any reference to it in old documenmts. 

The Tithe Applotment Books for that area, recording those that occupied more than 1 acre, were taken in 1850. Some of the names of families in Cowhouse were Shanahan, Grubb and Perrott. There is no record of a McCarthy family.

Best wishes, Kieran

Hi Kieran,  Thanks so much for your reply!  I know of you now from my distant cousin, Phil, who just visited you in Fermoy!  In fact I saw a lovely picture of the two of you about to have lunch.  Thank you so much for explaining about Cowhouse.  It has confused me for so long.  My great great grandfather's first child was baptised in Fermoy in 1828.  My GG grandfather was John Dwyer and his first wife was Mary (McCarthy) Dwyer.  Their daughter was Hanora Dwyer.  Hanora eventually emigrated to Lynn, MA, which is where Phil's ancestors emigrated to also.  I believe that Hanora came to the U.S. with Phil's family of uncles and cousins.  My GG grandfather, John Dwyer, left Fermoy (Cowhose) much earlier, about 1832 or 1833.  I think he must have lost his wife by that time, (maybe to the cholera epidemic?) and traveled to Boston, and then eventually to the midwestern U.S. to farm.  I was looking to find anything about Mary McCarthy, to learn what may have happened to her, but my main interest is in the Dwyers. ( Mary McCarthy is not related to me through the McCarthy line.  My McCarty ancestors come from the Dunmanway area).  John Dwyer wouldn't have appeared in the 1850 Tithe Applotment books in Fermoy in 1850, as he had already emigrated.  He probably lived in Cowhouse for 5 years or so (1827 - 1833).  He probably married Mary McCarthy in 1827, just before the church records started.  I'm thinking there is no cemetery record for Mary Dwyer, John's first wife, as they probably were quite poor at the time.  In any case, I hope I may be able to travel to Fermoy some day, to see where my Dwyer ancestors lived for a time.  Do you know of any Dwyers living in Fermoy these days?  Maybe they all eventually left Ireland.  All the best to you.  Kind regards, Maureen