Ryan and Sullivans of Kilshannig

Hi Liz

I don't mean to critical  but I am finding it quite difficult to understand exactly what the name and birth name of your GGM was as in your query as you never seemed to put them together.

Could you, as far as possible give the first and birth name of your GGM,. Her fathers first and last name. Her mothers first name and birth surname. If known, where your GGM was born and when and where she was married. If these facts were known, it could well be established if your GGM had siblings and if they survived and possibly if they did go to USA.. Did you find her on the 1901 Census? I know you mentioned the 1911 but did not give her location at that time?

These are very important detrails to get individually in order to help to establish and help to prove that one is dealing with the correct family especially when one is dealing with huge numbers of McCarthy families to choose from. If you have further detail of other members of the families, please let us have them too as things like the names of aunts, uncles, brothers or sisters and other known facts are very helpful for peoiple outside of your family to know and to be able to help. It is also essential that you try to keep all detail of McCarthy's seperate from Ryan's and list known dertail of both families seperately soi that each family name can be checked out individually and later to establish links between the two.I do understand that you may not have all the detail asked for but any information or known facts you can provide will be very helpful.

You can put them on this Message Board or email me on frankfahy054@gmail.com, and I will try to help in any way I can. Stay safe & well.

Frank Fahy

Frank,

You are correct!

Hopefully this will make more sense.

Realistically the only absolute records I have is;

Ellen Ryan married Jeremiah McCarthy Oct 18th, 1904 (had 2 children of which I know all about)

Her location at this time was Shanavoher, kilshannig, Mallow, Co. Cork, Ireland

Her Father was James Ryan, Mother not stated. Witnesses were Michael McCarthy & Margaret Ryan. Ellen was Full age at marriage and her Father was Living.

She is apparently Buried in Newberry cemetery but I cannot find a record/headstone to suggest this.

I am trying to find any information about her siblings that might lead me to finding Ryan descendents, her place of burial or confirmation of who her Mother was.

This is her in 1911 (I cannot find the family in 1901)

Name; Ellen Mc Carthy

Marital Status: Widow

Age: 37

Birth Year: 1874

Birth Place; Co Cork

Residence Date: 2 Apr 1911, House Number 1

Townland/Street: Garrane, Banteer, Cork

Occupation: Farmer

------------------

Jeremiah McCarthy (Her Husband)

BIRTH ABT. 1876 

DEATH 24 JAN 1907 • Garrane, Banteer Parish, Cork, Ireland

His Father was Michael McCarthy (Mar 10th, 1830, Crinnaloo, Banteer, Co. Cork) and his Mother Sarah Cremmin (Jul 30, 1841, Crinnaloo, Kilcorney, Banteer, Co. Cork). Jeremiah had 9 siblings and Sarah has 2 that I know of. 

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

Liz

hello Liz

My name is Donie O Sullivan and Ilive in Kilshannig parish .I will have a look for you ,only saw your request this evening. first of all I have been involved in a project recording the headstone inscriptions for Kilshannig Cemetery and will look up my records.Depending on what part of Shanavoher townland your ancestors came from as some may also be buried in Donoughmore graveyard.another graveyard used then was Abbeyswell and i have all records for that also.A book was published a few years ago listing all of the headstones in Donoughmore and i will also check there.I have recently been researching an O Sullivan  family from Shanavoher/Ballyboght townlands and I know a few elderly people living there who have a good local knowledge and I will contact them so hopefully I will come up with something..

Banteer parish is adjacent to Kilshannig and Crinaloo would be about 8-10 miles from Shanavoher.There are 3 graveyards in Banteer ,Kilcorney,Lyre and Clonmeen.

Regards Donie

Liz 

Had a quick check and nothing in Kilshannig graveyard but there are a number of Ryan headstones there and one family with many living relatives originated in the Shanavoher/ballyboght area of the parish and are likely connected to your side.

I did a small check on Ellen Ryan and she was born on 20May 1870 to James Ryan and Margaret Sullivan ,farmers in Shanavoher.married in Glantane Church on 10 Oct.1904 .This was the main Catholic church in Glantane Catholic parish which is the same as Kilshannig protestant parish and that means all civil records up to 1922 are recorded under Kilshannig and the Catholic church records go back to 1828 for some baptisms. In 1901 census it is likely she was a domestic cook in Mallow to the Longfield family a weathy landlord ,protestant class family who built Longueville House ,a mansion that is now a high grade hotel.,

Will do more later

Donie

Donie,

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner. I just finished studying and started a new job so it's been manic. Just before I started the job I made the long awaited trip to Kilshannig graveyard (before level 5!!) and I noticed a few Ryan graves to the right inside the gate but no concrete information on Ellen McCarthy (nee Ryan) .Thank you so much for looking and the information on her possible ocupation - that is very interesting. Unfornately I don't have what part of Shanavoher townland she came from as I am limited by the marriage cert info and my assumptions on her birth (and therefore possible siblings). If there is anyway you can put me in contact with the descendents you mention above please do (elizabethr040@gmail.com)

In the mean time I will look for more information on James and Margaret in hopes they were from the area.

Best Wishes,

Liz

Hello Liz

Welcome back.When I had not heard from you  I did no further searching so I will commence again.I will check out the Ryan connection,I should have mentioned that Kilshannig Graveyard is also known as Newberry Cenetery as it is located in the townland of Newberry.Iwill pin down the O Sullivan and Ryan descendants still living and confirm back to you

You should look up a website"historicgraves.com" -explore- projects and then scroll to Historic graveyards Duhallow and then find newberry and all of the headstones there are photographed and idocumented..I will get  back to you when I have info. I should be able to pinpoint the location of the homeseads in Shanavoher as they were in 1852. I notice an o Sullivan family also farmed in Ballyboght beside Shanavoher.

Regards

Donie

Hello Liz

I got lost for the past month as I was publishing abook but back on track and a lot to tell you

First there are 4 Ryan headstones in kilshannig(Newberry) graveyard and I have pinned down 2 but struggling with others.No Ellen McCarthy on any. .

Ellen Ryan married Jeremiah McCarthy on 10Oct.1904and they lived near Kilcorney lin Banteer parish.He died within about 3-4 years and they had 2 children and one was a daughter Sarah. Sarah had a daughter Margaret who is still alive and lives near Banteer village. She does not answer her phone unless she recognises the number and has no e mail but is willing to answer a letter and you should write to her at Margaret Twomey,Glen South,Banteer, Co.Cork.Ireland. .Sarah died in 1987 at 81 years of age.She was born on 2nd Nov.1905 and was married to a Timothy Kelleher near Kilcorney which is in Banteer parish.This is the closest I have got to one of your relations.

I also made contact with an Annie Ryan (Kelleher) from Shanavoher who is alive but unsure of her connection to Ellen.She got a stroke and is immobile  but her memory is good . She is living with an in law but her son rings her and got the info on ellen from her as she has great family knowledge..

A local undertaker ,Dermot Mccarthy is a grand nephew to Jeremiah McCarthy and is still in business in Banteer village

A niece of Ellen worked in the Castle pub in Castletownroche. Ellen died in about 1926 but I failed to find her death but an Ellen Mccarthy  from Banteer died of TB in mallow hospital in 1928 at 41  and this may be her but her age should be 58 years.Nothing else comes near that record and it could also account for her burial in Newberry by her family.

James and Margaret are in Shanavoher in 1901 census but I had a diddiculty finding them in 1911 census until I saw that their surnames were wrongly recorded and they are listed as Ryons .

I also found out the original home of the Ryans of Shanavoher,they originated in County Tipperary and were in Shanavoher on Tithe books of c.1830.

Margaret Ryan(Sullivan died on 4th Aug 1907at 67 years.and her daughter Margaret was present.

Jeremiah mccarthy died 24th Jan. 1907 at 28 years.

I think that will keep you occupied for a while.I should mention that I mixed you up with an O Sullivan from Shanavoher who is also tracing her family and she is wondering how the ryans are connected to her crowd following a few e mails from me that should have gone to you but you have it all now.I have a few more leads to follow and will get back to you again 

Regards

Donie

Donnie,

Thank you very much for keeping me on your radar! You are right that Margaret Twomey (nee Kelleher) is still alive in Glensouth Banteer. She is my lovely Aunt! (no visits now but I'm always on the phone - although she probably doesn't want to pick up even when she knows the number at this stage with all the questions I always have - Ha Ha!!) and Dermot is indeed her 1st cousin who buried my Father. He is also my Godfather! I was 16 when my GM Sarah (Sadie) died in 1987 (My she was a good age!) so I am well versed in her Mother, Ellen's (my GGM) branch.

Unfotunately we know very little of her (so was great to hear from you that she worked as a cook possibly in Lougeville Hse). We know less about her family or Mother Margaret Ryan nee Sullivan. I was hoping with your connections to this area you might be able to find out more about the Sullivan's, family or the burial site of Ellen McCarthy nee Ryan. I am amazed that there are no recordings of burials in 1926/1928?.

I think you are right in that it's quite possible that this Ellen McCarthy who died in Mallow of TB could be her. We know that she died young and that Sarah (my GM) was also young, not long married and had to deal with the death of 2 of her own children - so many young deaths, hence so little information and also so painful I imagaine to talk about.

I cannot find any Church records of either Sarah (b. 1905) or Michael's (b,. 1907) which might have Ellen's siblings (Daniel/Margaret) as sponsors?

I notice there is a Denis Ryan in Shanavoher, Kilshannig with a son Daniel also? Maybe there's a Daniel Ryan pre James? Also Maybe Denis & James are brothers?

I believe I found a John/james Ryan + Margaret in Castletownroche as publican - Ironically my father and mother bought the same pub many many years later!! My Mother said my Father's Mother (Sarah Kelleher (nee Mccarthy)) was worried that history may be repeating itself as apparently this previous Ryan pub owner drank the proceeds!! Again I need to link this family.

Where can I get church records for Banteer? I thought all records available were centralised and available on NLI? 

I would love to know where in Tipperary they originated from. It does appear to be the 'home county' of Ryan's having joined the Ryan genealogy website but I have not yet had a dna connection! These are certainly a mysterious lot!!

Thanks Again for all your work, Have a lovely safe Xmas,

Best Wishes,

Liz

Liz

I have been trying to piece together the various Ryan families from shanavoher and it is a tangle of similar names through the generations. A little bit on Ellen Ryan.She died in hospital in Mallow on 12th June 1928 from TB.and she was classed as a widow This record would appear to fit but no concrete proof.

I was in contact with a lady who thinks she knows where Ellen is buried in Newberry Cemetery and she has a mortuary card for her and her husband but no photo on it..I will get a copy when we can resume visitations as we are in lockdown at present. She told me that a headstone was erected there but got broken and the inscription has disappeared. When we recorded the inscriptions on the headstones in Newberry we searched extensively and used probes to find buried broken pieces and nothing relevant was found .I will meet this lady there when lockdown is lifted and hopefully we can find the location.There is some confusion about the Ryan headstones and there are 2 Ellens on the Glantane Ryans grave but they arre accounted for. It looks like an extra grave was inserted between existing ones  that may have comprimised the situation

James Ryan and Margaret Sullivan passed on the farm to their  son Daniel who married a Mary O Connor in 1905 and they had 2 children Margaret and James and both of these died unmarried so no direct heir.. Indications are that the Ryans came to Shanavoher in the early 1800's from Tipperary but no knowledge of where.

will get in touch if anything else is unearthed

Regards and  happy new year

Donie

Liz

No reply to above anyway,little info since but I did find a family tree in Ancestry.com containing Ellen Ryan and her parents. Some info seems accurate and one or two new bits but some info looks dubius. It is in BURNS+KELLEHER TREE. If you are not joined Ancestry I could send you details on it,It does mention the death of Ellen McCarthy in Newberry in 1930 as an alternative to the one I fund. We are in serious lockdown over covid  so no chance to meet Kathleen Cremin to check out the grave site.

Donie

Donie you're doing sterling work and leaving no stone unturned. The BURNS+KELLEHER tree is mine so I've included all to date in hope of hints. It will be very exciting to see the mortuary card that Kathleen and understand how she may be connected too! Thanks again for your continued time, effort and support. Take Care, Liz or Lizr54!!

Hello Liz

Donie back again

You asked about Margaret O Sullivan and who was she so I did a search and I think I found her origins

A James Sullivan married a Margaret Sullivan in Dnoughmore Parish on 15 Feb.1858 which would be next to Kilshannig Parish and about 4 miles from Shanavoher so this is the most likely case as no other matches  the information you have .

Margaret Sullivan was born to Timothy and Margaret Sullivan in the townland of Killeenleigh in Donoughmore Parish on 2 April 1837 and this place is less than a mile from Dnoughmore Church which is in Stuake village beside Donoughmore village.There is an old graveyard at Donoughmore and it is likely the old church was there also..I have the headstone inscriptions for both graveyards and will see if any matching Sullivans are buried there

Hope this is satisfactory ,Cannot pursue the Ryans until the covid restrictions are eased

Regards

Donie

thank you so much- did you get my email regarding your own DNA connection to my family! ?! elizabethr040@gmail.com, please email if not. I'm afraid I'm not getting an alert always when there is a reply on XO?!? Best Regards Liz 

Donie,

Liz

I finally met Kathleen Cremin nee O Sullivan and i attach a copy of the mortuary card as promised. She only has an idea where Ellen was buried. i just looked at the card images and they are very poor.I must have set my scanner at low resolution so i will  try to get better ones.Kathleen told me that her 3 uncles emigrated to USA in 1920 and 2 of them became policemen in New York. Another uncle followed later.,

I will get back to you when I get better quality copies of card

Regards

Donie

Hi Donie,

Hope you are keeping well. I really enjoyed your video post on the mother of Daniel O Connell-ver interesting! It’s amazing to think Kathleen had these mortuary cards after all these years!! I’m so grateful for you following this up! 
I imagine with 3uncles in the US there must be ancestors for me to find, 

Many Thanks,

Liz