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Hello,

I am writing for Patti, whose grandparents were Thomas O'Leary and Ellen Cusack, according to their daughter's marriage record in NYC. I have found Thomas and Ellen and children in 1911 in Charleville, Ball's Lane, and the newly-wed couple in the same place in 1901 prior to Mary's birth (Mary being Patti's mother). I have attached those censuses. The thing is that we have found a marriage record for a Thomas O'Leary and Ellen Bowen with the witnesses Michael Cusack and Mary Cusack. We are wondering if Ellen was married before because of a notation in the parish record regarding banns (see attached record from Mallow Heritage Center). Both Mary's marriage record and her death record state that her mother's maiden name was Cusack. I cannot locate a baptismal record for an Ellen Bowen, but I have found one for Ellen Cusack born the same year (image from NLI attached).

Furthermore, Mary O'Leary's baptismal record has the same sponsors, Michael Cusack and Mary Cusack, as Thomas and Ellen's marriage witnesses (transcription from Mallow attached).

Can someone locally put us on to any descendants of any of these people? They all seem to be related. Thomas and Ellen had other children whom Patti has no knowledge of: Elizabeth (Lizzie), Nora, Michael and Ellen. Mary emigrated to NYC and died in Connecticut in 1957.

Regards and many thanks in advance,

Jeanne Dwyer for Patti 

jeannemarge

Sunday 28th August 2016, 11:35PM

Attached Files

Message Board Replies

  • Jeanne/Patti:

    Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

    The church marriage record for the 1901 marriage shows Ellen's father as Thomas Bowen. If she was originally a Cusack, it would seem that her father's name would be a Cusack. The civil marriage record is not online but I did locate the index record. Using the index record, you can write to the General Register Office and get a copy for around 4 euros. The record should show her marital status at marriage-- widow or unmarried. If you need instructions let me know.

    I also looked for a civil marriage record for an Ellen Cusack to someone with the surname Bowen and no record came up.

    Regarding possible living descendants, you can try the online Irish phone book which is a partial list of phone users. Make sure you use the Residential TAB.

    Let me know what questions you have.

    Roger McDonnell

    https://www.eirphonebook.ie/

     

    First name(s)EllenLast nameBowenRegistration year1901Registered Quarter/YearJan - Mar 1901Registration districtKilmallockVolume5Page259MarriageFinder™Ellen Bowen married one of these people
    Thomas Leary, Michael Dunlay, James Walsh, Michael Dunlea, Maurice CreminCounty-

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Monday 29th August 2016, 12:20AM
  • Thanks for your quick response, Roger!

    I agree, it does look like Ellen Bowen was, well, Ellen Bowen, considering there is no record to contradict it or support another idea. Patti is limited as to how much concrete info she has due to the family being broken up here in the US, but everyone involved and the records we do have indicate Ellen's maiden name was Cusack. Yet, there is no evidence in Ireland that it was.

    I don't mean to be critical, especially when you are so good to help us, but in your response you stated that the 1901 church record shows Ellen Bowen's father to be Thomas, but it states Michael Bowen is her father on that record. However, when I search rootsireland.ie for her baptism record, two results show one Ellen Bowen born in 1876 to Timothy Bowen and one born in 1878 to Patrick Bowen. When I searched familysearch.org (LDS), I found an Ellen Bowen born in 1875 to Thomas Bowen. Is that where you saw Thomas Bowen as father of Ellen Bowen?

    But getting back to the Cusack-Bowen conundrum, it does appear that the O'Learys and Cusacks were somehow related, and I would like either your opinion or your knowledge (or both!) in this regard:

    1. Ellen Cusack baptism shows her mother's name was Catherine McCarthy.
    2. Ellen Bowen's baptism Ellen's mother's name as Bessie Condon (Condron?).
    3. Thomas Hart-Ellen Cusack marriage shows witnesses Thomas Leary's address Limerick Rd as he lived at marriage to Ellen Bowen.
    4. Thomas O'Leary-Ellen Bowen marriage shows witnesses were Michael Cusack and Mary Cusack.
    5. Mary O'Leary baptism shows godparents were Michael Cusack and Mary Cusack
    6. Elizabeth O'Leary (daughter of Thomas and Ellen in 1911) baptism shows godparents were Daniel Leary and Mary McCarthy.
    7. Ellen O'Leary (daughter of Thomas and Ellen in 1911) baptism shows godparents as Denis Sullivan and Honoria Condron (Condon?).

    These items may not point to anything but the frequency of the surnames in the area, but in researching my own Irish ancestry, I have learned a fairly safe bet is that witnesses/godparents were related to the couple/child.

    In regard to the marriage record of Thomas O'Leary and Ellen Bowen from Dublin, I will see if I can order film in to be viewed at my local LDS library. It will save the special postage and exchange rate, etc. :-)

    A search of the phone book on line provides two leads, which I may check out next month for Patti when I am there in person. Thank you so much for your help with this.

    jeannemarge

    Tuesday 30th August 2016, 09:53PM

    Attached Files

  • Jeanne:

    My error on the father of Ellen. As you pointed out, his name was Michael. I made a mistake typing the note.

    Hold off on ordering the film from LDS. See the announcement below from Clare Santry. It looks like actual civil records will be available soon on www.irishgenealogy.ie

    Regarding your Cusack/Bowen conundrum, is it possible that Ellen married a Bowen in England? Just a thought.

    Roger

    http://www.irishgenealogynews.com/2016/08/onlnine-launch-irish-birth-mar...

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 31st August 2016, 08:23PM
  • Hi, Roger, thanks again for your post. As I said, I was certainly not being critical; I am known locally as The Typo Queen. :-)

    I was just reading the news about next week's release. I am on pins and needles! I was able to cancel and get a refund on film I had already ordered, and that was BEFORE I read the news.

    I have a couple of street-related questions. Do you happen to know what thoroughfare would have been considered the Limerick Road in 1901? What about Ball's Lane, and that was referred to in both 1901 and 1911. They would both be considered Charleville.

    Regards,

    Jeanne

    jeannemarge

    Thursday 1st September 2016, 09:19PM
  • Jeanne:

    Ball's Lane is still there. See this listing. http://www.sherryfitz.ie/commercial/14892

    The Limerick Road would be the N20 headed north out of Charleville towards Limerick city.

    Roger

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Friday 2nd September 2016, 10:06PM
  • Thanks, Roger. I had not responded yet to your suggestion about Ellen Cusack marrying a Bowen in England, but now that the Civil Registration images are accessible, I found that birth record for Ellen Cusack, father Thomas, and it states father "went to England." I attached it. I am now on the hunt for a marriage record for Ellen Cusack in England. (Was that intuition on your part??)

    However, I have another street question. The residence of Kate nee McCarthy Cusack was Bridewell Lane in Charleville. Does that still exist?

    As always, many thanks,

    Jeanne

    jeannemarge

    Thursday 8th September 2016, 03:01PM

    Attached Files

  • Jeanne:

    I guess intuition/experience.

    I don't think Bridewell Lane is still around. Whey don't you ask the Charleville library branch?

    Roger

    http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/web/Cork%20County%20Council/Departments/Librar...

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Friday 9th September 2016, 09:59PM
  • Great idea. I will do that. Many thanks, Roger.

    jeannemarge

    Saturday 10th September 2016, 04:16PM