Searching for Information Keeffe/Cotter

the births you mentioned are extracts of civil birth records - the numbers are the register page number, and the locations given are usually registration sub-districts. The research certs from GRO should add a few more details - e.g. child's place of birth, often as the name of a specific townland, father's occupation, usual residence which can be different to the place of birth, and also the name of the person who reported the birth to the registrar.

Whitechurch sub-district was part of Cork registration district so that's the district to look for on the BMD Index. Cork is a large district based in te city, but also covering areas in the county, and based on estimated age etc there are about four reasonable matches for possible deaths of Edmond's mother over the years mentioned - see : Julia [O'}Keefe - deaths

I suspect that William and Julia married before the start of civil records, so a search for church records would be required for their marriage, and also for possible baptisms for any earlier children to the couple

Thank you so much for that info. It gives me more places to look. It can be an overwhelming process! :)

I have now received the lovely Birth Certificate for Edmond Keeffe, which gives me some additional information. The place of birth is listed as "Lota-ville" - and this is also the listed dwelling place of father, William Keeffe. So do you think this would be the name of the house he was born in? I can't find Lotaville as a place name. Is it common to give houses names? William's occupation is listed as "Gardener". In a later certificate, for last son Lawrence (also born at "Lotaville"), William's occupation is listed as "Servant", so I am thinking he was part of the domestic staff of some landowner. Julia Keeffe (formerly Cotter) is listed as the mother on both certificates, but she still remains a mystery. I have attached a copy of the Certificate. Any further insight greatly apprecitated.

Caroline.

Thankyou for providing that link Shane. I found 2 entries in here that look very promising, but unfortunately I can only order certificates for Deaths from 1924 onwards at the GRO site. Do you know any other ways that I can get more info? The two that I am particularly interested in are Julia Keeffe, Death 1873 - Vol. 20 p. 143 and Julia O'Keeffe, Death Jul-Sept 1879 -  Vol. 5 p. 70.

The place of birth, residence etc on certs is usually the name of a townland - the two closest matches are Lota Beg and Lota More. Both of these were in the correct civil registration district - i.e. Cork , and sub-district Whitechurch. The second word might be a spelling variation, or alternate - etc

You can order research certs (€4) from the GRO for any of th e available dates, but only by post or fax. Download the order from here (it's an MS Word document), print it out, fill in your details, and the references you mentioned plus the name of the district, and tick the 'photocopy' option  for research certs. Ignore the unnecessary details on the form like PPS details etc. Certs are usually sent by post, but recently they added  an email deliver option - if required tick the option on the form, and enter you email address.

Note that death certs dont include very much detail, but you can often confirm the connection using place of death, name of the informant etc

EDIT : there is a Lota Ville house or estate in Lota More townland - see here (1st Ed. OSI Map from c1837). I'd say William worked on the estate, and probably lived in a cottage or mews etc on the grounds or very nearby.

That map is so beautiful! And I think I have actually found the house - it's been for sale for some time http://www.dominicjdaly.com/index.php/en/properties/residential/cork-ci….

But do you think this is my Lotaville that you have found? I thought that the district of Whitechurch was to the Northwest of Cork city, whereas this seems to be due East of the city?

Sorry for being such a pest! You have been so helpful.

Add: They just seem so far apart https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Lotaville,+Burke%27s+Hill,+Co.+Cor…

The sub-district name of Whitechurch might be a little misleading, as it's also the name of a large civil parish and a village to the north of Cork city. It's quite common to find the same name used for different types of land division, which can get confusing, which is why I try where possibly to include both the placename and type of division - e.g. Lota More townland, Rathcooney civil parish, Whitechurch sub-district etc.

The sub-district of Whitechurch was (poss. still is) part the Cork city district, and as well as parts of Whitechurch civil parish the district also included parts of other civil parishes to the north east and east of the city - e.g. Kilcully, small sections of St. Anne's and St. Michaels, and all of Rathcooney civil parish where Lota More and Lota Beg townlands are located.

There's a map of the Official Placename website at logainm.ie that might help explain - see : here

Click the 'open the file' link to see a map of the districts for the South East of Ireland - you will probably need to save it to your PC and use picture viewer or similar to see the details by zooming in. Look to the bottom right of this map for the Cork city area. The city centre is shown with the heavy lines. To the north and east is a district with two names labelled inside, which are civil parishes in this case, marked Rathcooney, and Whitechurch. The one underlined is the the used as the name of the sub-district.

Your link certainly looks like the right place to me, I'll see if there are any mention of the house in old directories etc

Thanks so much for that map - it really makes sense now. Whitechurch is actually quite a big area and I can see that Lotaville is tucked right down in the lower corner, just about as far away from Whitechurch town as it could be. Yes, the multiple usage of names for parishes/districts etc does really confuse me, but seeing that map has really helped me get a grasp on what we are talking about. I can't thank you enough :)

From what I can find the occupier or owner of 'Lota villa' in 1870 (Slater's Directory) was a Captain R. T Gray, , and  later in 1901 he (or possibly his son) is shown census at the right location here  The house is described on the Census Form Building returns as having 21 rooms, with 9 windows in the front at that time, so looks like a match the one you found for sale.

There a death on the Probate Calendar for Richard in 1904, and his full name as Richard Townsend Gray and his address is shown as Lottaville, Glanmire, Co. Cork

In 1901 there's a Margaret O'Keefe servant living on Lota More townland, I dont think she's one of William and Julia's children but might related through another branch. (surnames can have slight spelling changes, and prefixes like O or Mc/Mac can disappear or reappear...)

Haha! Yes well I think the O'Keeffe's were a dime a dozen - from what I've read, Cork has the highest concentration of Keeffe's/O'Keeffe's in the whole of the country. I saw a reference to Richard Townsend Gray today as well, and I think the house did pass to his son, Roland William Henry Nash Gray (what a mouthful!). Roland was born in 1864 - which makes him a contemporary of my Great Grandfather Edmond/Edward who was born there in 1866. Perhaps they played together as children - who knows? It's a nice thought.

Margaret is definitely not one of William and Julia's, as all seven of them shipped out toghether in 1881. But she certainly could have been some relative, perhaps a niece?

Thanks again for all your insight - it really has been marvelous :)