Costello family of Cavan Co Cavan or Co Donegal

Hi Annette,

Mary Jane married John Gore Looker 1883 in Inishowen, Co. Donegal, her children born in Dublin were born in the East

Pier Barracks, Kingstown (Dun Laoghaire), her husband was a soldier.

1891 UK census John McManus and Elizabeth are living in Birkenhead, Cheshire, John McManus is head of Household,

living with them is his mother in law Mary Riley, a widow, after Edward died did mary marry a Riley, then he had died

by 1891. Census records although transcribed are primary records, Mary Jane was head of household 1911, she gave the

information to the enumerator, she stated Cavan and also gave a detailed account of where her children were born.

I believe she was born in Cavan pre 1864 Civil Registration.

Brendan

www.researchireland.com

Hi Brendan . Thank you so much for all your very kind research. I do have John and Elizabeth living in Birkenhead and all the childrens Birth and Baptisms in Birkenhead.

I also saw the Mary Riley name but she is not the mother of Elizabeth, I checked her age and it it listed incorrect on the 1891 census, this Mary Riley I have other Records on and she was in Birkenhead before Elizabeth arrived.I believe her husband is Patrick Riley.  I think she was just their lodger as when Mary Riley dies, Elizabeth. had not long buried her husband John McManus, who sadly died in an accident of the Birkenhead Docks, although there were 4 more places available in Johns. grave, Mary Riley is put in a paupers grave onlyyards away from the grave Elizabeth owns.....If she was Elizabeths mum, I am sure she would have buried her mum in the grave with her own husband knowing it had room to spare.

Brendan, please would you know how I may be able to find any records for Births? Or how I can find Catholic Churches where I could write and offer a donation to in the hope I may find a Baptism for either of the sisters.?

I have scoured RootsIreland ,Family search ,Ancestry and must be thousands of web sites tryng to just locate where the family came from......If I could just find one record or even a Griffths Valuation, I would be able to buy any records until I do find her. She is so precious to me.

I thought she may have come from Cavan, Co Donegal because her sister went there to marry in 1883, but she may have run away as it seems she is only 14 when she married John Looker, who it seems had already left a wife and daughter behind in Liverpool. It could be that her age is wrong.

I really appreciate all you kind and generous help, My Gt Grandma is in my mind each and every day, she is so dear to me.

Kindest regards xx

Annette

Hi Annette,

I know what brickwalls are made of, I have enough of them in my own family tree, it  is very satisying when you do get a 

positive result, my old lecturer Bob Burke said follow the ladies and you will get the men, my university lecturer says follow

the paper trail, Do you have Mary Jane's marriage cert? was her father alive when she married, do not discount that he

may have been an RIC officer, I have located a death record 1978 which may be Edward. He may have retired  and died

by Elizabeth's marriage.

I have located a family tree on Ancestry that includes John McManus and Elizabeth Costello, it states whether correctly  

or  incorrectly that Mary Reily was Elizabeth's mother.

I think somewhere we have mis-information we have to sift through the primary information and discover what is fiction

and what is fact.

I will stick with you on this one, lets find the true facts. I may have to ask you to apply for certain certificates, but I will give

you full details of the certificates required.

As a mature college student I have free access to the newspaper archives in Ireland, I am picking up an Edward

Costello living in Carrick on Shannon Leitrim which may come under Cavan Registrars Disrtict

I can definately see where your brickwall is coming from, nothing on Rootsireland to give a clue, it is a difficult one

Brendan

www.researchireland.com

Hi Brendan,

**Thank you** so so much for your kind help, I really do appreciate all our advice.

Yes I have also seen the Family Tree on Ancestry, I do not know the owner personally but I have sent messages to inquire their relationship with John & Lizzie.As yet I havent heard back from them.

I do have a copy of MARY JANE & JOHN LOOKER'S Marriage Cert from RootsIreland.I thought it may be the wrong MARY JANE when I saw her age and place of marriage as Co DONEGAL on it.....not to say her being called JANE and JOHN LOOKER mispely as HOOKER but then I located JOHN LOOKER'S Army Records, all eight pages of them!

In them they state he married in DESERTEGNY Co DONEGAL in 1883. On another page it states that on discharge, JOHN & MARY JANE went to live at WOOD STREET LOW HILL LIVERPOOL which is the address JOHN gave when he married his first wife in Liverpool and also the place noted on the baptism of his daughter Alice in 1865. On the marriage certificate for JOHN in LIverpool, his Army Records he is noted as a "Brick Maker" by occupation.

So I am confident that these are one in the same people.It does not say Edward is deceased on Mary Janes Marriage Certificate, but I find RootsIreland Certificates sometimes do not have all the boxes filled in and so you can never tell.

I would have no problem with buying Certificates, its hard when you hit a brick wall as without a place of Birth, I cant order Certificates from PRONI and rely on RootsIreland.....have a few that Iv guessed at....that are not the correct MaryJane or Elizabeth. In fact if I had not been made redundant last year, I would jump a boat over to Cavan to try find them....but sadly that is out of my reach at the moment too.

I would be so grateful for any help Brendan, I really would, finding her is my dream....love her dearly.

I am able to help with any research here in Liverpool, I have a huge list of Costello Family here in Liverpool who came from Ireland between 1845 1890 {both my husband and I have Costello Ancestors, his are from Co Tipperary and mine are from Co Galway} So I can offer any help. I also have access to Roman Catholic Church Records for any Churches in Liverpool and Cheshire.

Thank you so very much, I am so very grateful to you Brendan.

A million Thank you's

Annette xxx

I am very proud to say my mum was born in Co Cork and her family are from Killorglin Co Kerry, I am only 1/8 english, one Grandma .......all the rest is Irish. :) xx

Hi Annette,

I think the best thing to do is order Mary Jane's civil marriage certificate, the 6 euro photocopy will suffice.

Rootsireland records are transcribed records there may be mistakes. If Edward was alive 1883 and dead 1891 that

narrows down our quest for finding the correct death record.

RIC officers were not allowed serve in their birth county or the birth county of their wife, there is an Edward born Kings

County who enlisted 1867, married aged 20, Elizabeth 1891 and 1901 UK census states born 1863, this Edward is

an outside possibility.

Please send me Elizabeth's marriage certificate

brendan@researchireland.com

Brendan

Thank you so much for your kind message.

Im not sure if I can attach a document to this message, is there a Private inbox on here? Iv got Mary Janes Marriage Certificate and Elizabeths Marriage Certificate to send for you to see.

I dont know anything about the RIC, I did post a message on a Forum and recievesd a kind reply. I managed to purchase a record for an Edward Costello. I was elated about the possibility it was him! As soon as I saw it I realised it wasnt him as this Edward Costello had died in the Crimea War well before the Birthdates of both Elizabeth &  Mary Jane Costello. :(

Thank you so much for your kindness I really do so appreciate all your help and advice Brendan.

Now to find how to send you thse certificates?

Annette xx

Hi Annette,

I included my e-mail address in my last post, you can send the records there. I saw that Crimea record and discounted it,

My granduncle Sgt James O'Donoghue RIC was shot dead in White Street Cork 1921 by the IRA, there is a whole

paragraph in Peter Hart's book "the IRA and its enemies", James was unarmed, he never carried a gun.

My G grandmother Mary Riordan was born in Rangue, Killorglin, my first cousin Brian McCarthy runs the financial services

company FEXCO in Killorglin, they are a major employer in the area.

Talk to you soon

Brendan

My Great Aunt Elizabeth WALSH married Micheal "Darkie" RIORDAN of Droum West  Glenbeigh Co Kerry back in the 1890's. My RIORDAN Familay are all from Glenbeigh, Killorglin, Dooks  and Cromane.We still have many cousins in the area and often call in on them when we go to Ireland.

The Family names from my Granda Jack WALSH'S family are; WALSH, ROIRDAN, MORIARTY, HANNON, O'SULLIVAN,GRIFFIN, CLIFFORD, HOARE, PRENDERGAST, SCANLON, COSTELLO, O'LEARY, BARRY, COTTER and SUGRUE

Gosh, what a coincidence!!

I was sorry to read about your Gt Uncle James.Taking any life is not good.

My Gt Uncle EDWARD WALSH, Granda Jacks brother, is mentioned in a book too. He was taken from a field  and marched to Castleisland, where he was shot by an officer of the balck and tans,Ironically the officer was called McGinn....which later on became an issue within the family when a WALSH family member married a MCGINN!

I bet one or two of my Kerry familywork for your familes company....I bet they know them if they dont work for them, everyone seems to know my cousin Johnny MORIARTY from DROUM WEST.

I will send the certifictaes to you now Brendan,

Thank you so so much.

Annette xx

Hi Annette,

The reason Jane married in Donegal was because her husband was stationed at Dunree Fort on Lough Swilly.

The Catholic church probably would not marry them so the married in the C of I.

Brendan

Hi Brendan,

Thank you once again for all your kind help.

I first thought Mary Jane may have married in Co Donegal because it was her Home town, especially when I noticed the name "Cavan" in Co Donegal and put two and two together.

Sometime ago, I did send a message to Cavan Genealogy to ask if they may be able to help or if they knew how I could search Cavan Records. I have a reply in my email box saying that they did have a look for the names I had given but could not find them in any Records.

May I email you that message?

I knew Mary Jane was a Catholic as she had one child in Birkenhead and I found that Baptismal Record, the little boy died in infancy.

I wondered if the Catholic church may have refused to marry her due to John being a soilder.

Brendan , you are so kind, I really apprecaite your help on this, I have loved family history since I lost my parents at a very young age, tracing my background has been so important to me. My love for my family history goes back 32 years, Elizabeth has been in my mind all that time.

Thank you so much for all this help.

Annette xx

ps I recieved an email, but could not open the links due to a password system. xx

Hi Annette,

You will have to order the Civil marriage cert and see was Edward alive at the time of his daughter's marriage.

I notice she was of full age, over 21 that puts her birth at 1862 or before. I also notice she called herself Jane not Mary

Jane. There is a Jane baptism Kildare 1858, father Edward, only problem they did not have an Elizabeth.

We are probably looking for an Edward death record 1883-1891 who was born between 1820 and 1840, that whittles the

Edwards down, if he was a policeman at some stage, his death must have been recorded.

Brendan

Once again, Thank you so much.

Please do you know if I order a full civil Marriage Certificate from PRONI?

The last time i contacted PRONI,they could not take a payment from me due to problems with their Internet setup.

I can order what ever is needed straight away, Im not sure how long these Certificates take to arrive as I only ever used RootsIreland for my Certificates.

You are right, she seems to call herself Jane, when she arrives in Birkenhead she calls herself Mary Jane again. John Looker who was still married to a lady in Liverpool when he married Mary "Jane",In 1899 he became a convert, by this time he had already added the name "Gore" to his name and is he signed as John Gore Looker on John & Elizabeths Marriage Certificate.

Is there a possibility if he were a Policeman, that he may have moved about and perhaps his children born in different counties?

I really do so appreciate all your advice Brendan, you are so kind.Thank you so much.

Annette xx

Hi Brendan.

I have been emailing GROIreland and managed to negotiate a fairly secure way of payment for the 1883 Marriage Certificate for John Looker and Mary "Jane" Costello.So hopefully that should be sorted out over the next week or so.

Please may I ask your advice again?

I have been looking at the 1891 Birkenhead census for ELIZABETH COSTELLO and JOHN McMANUS and I have done a little more research into MARY RILEY....which has brought an interesting thing to light.

On the 1891 census, MARY RILEY is living ELIZABETH & JOHN MCMANUS  at 150 St Anne Street, Birkenhead.

 In 1897 MARY RILEY died and  I have found this listing a the Burial Register for 1897 as: MARY RILEY age 55. widow of Patrick Riley. 9 Hope Street.Birkenhead.

In 1898 JOHN McMANUS is killed in an accident. He is listed in the burial registers as: JOHN McMANUS age 54.  9 Hope Street Birkenhead.

I now believe there is a very strong possibility that this is in fact the widowed and re-married mother of ELIZABETH COSTELLO.

I had a look at Familysearch and found a MARY COSTELLO RILEY married to a PATRICK RILEY, they have three children born in DUBLIN.{she seems to add COSTELLO to her RILEY name} I am not sure if this is Mary & Patrick as I cannot find the children here in the UK.....but they may have died or may have been old enough to go into service by 1891. The COSTELLO RILEY name certainly looks right and she is the only one I can find  who fits the description after searching the internet for the past two weeks.

Brendan, please may I ask if you know how I would be able to trace a Marriage Certificate details for MARY COSTELLO RILEY?

I am at a complete and utter loss as to where I can find information on thsi marriage as I can only assume it is Dublin as their children were born there and one child is baptized there.

They are:

Elizabeth RILEY born 5th March 1875 No.3 North City,the City of Dublin, Ire {baptismal record} I have tried to trace the church at No 3 North City.

Margaret Mary RILEY, born  9th  June 1879 Dublin Dublin Ire.

John Christopher RLIEY born 21 st Dec 1876,Dublin Ire

On all three records, their mother is listed as MARY COSTELLO RILEY.

I would be so grateful for any advice about where I could obtain the above records?

Thank you so much for all your help on this Brendan I am truly grateful to you.

Annette x