need help for very little info I have

Marian:

I looked for 1871 civil marriage index records in Co. Donegal and there were 4 Philip Doherty marriages all in the Inishowen registration district. One of them had a possible spouse with the name M"Laughlin. Is it possible that Sarah was also Mary?

Roger McDonnell

Marian,

I wouldn?t worry too much about the discrepancy in Sarah?s age in the 1911 census. The censuses are full of variations like that. People didn?t take that much care and I have seen errors of over 10 years many times. Having said that, the tendency in the 1911 census was to inflate ages, as the old age pension had been introduced in 1909 for people aged 70 and over, and some people were therefore keen to advance their age to try and ensure they ?qualified.? But as I say I wouldn?t worry about it. You have a fairly accurate picture of when she was born from the other censuses, and her reported date of marriage is also a clue to the fact that she was probably in her early twenties then.

If Philip and Sarah were born around 1851 then it?s well before the start of birth certificates in Ireland (1864) and so you?ll need to rely on church records. I assume they were RC.

Roger has pointed to the fact that there are 4 possible marriages in 1871, all in the Inishowen area. That sounds encouraging and it?s probably worth investigating certainly the one with a McLaughlin surname. So, perhaps the Inishowen peninsula is where the couple came from? That would not be surprising. Huge numbers of people from Inishowen migrated to Glasgow and the surrounding area and to this day, in the summer months, every second voice there appears to be Scottish, being descendants back visiting family.

There are 8 RC parishes in Inishowen. I?ll list them, together with the start date of their baptism records: Clonca 1851, Clonmany 1852, Carndonagh 1847, Culdaff 1838, Moville 1852, Iskaheen 1858, Burt 1859 & Desrtegney 1864. (These start dates are pretty typical for all of Donegal. For reasons I have never fathomed, the church was very slow to start keeping baptism and marriage records in Donegal.). So you?ll see from this information that if your couple were born around 1851 then there?s only 2 or 3, of the 8 parishes that are definitely going to have records for that year. That?s probably why you can?t find their baptisms. Sadly there?s a strong chance that the records just don?t exist. (I think the ones that do exist are on the rootsireland site, but I assume you have already investigated that). If not, there are copies in PRONI in Belfast and the National Library in Dublin.

Having said that, I have another thought. You?ll know that in Scotland, the Registrar lists the date and place where the parents married, on a child?s birth certificate. (That?s obviously where you got the date of the marriage from). In my experience, the Registrar tended to put the actual location, rather than the general area or county. I have two examples on my desk at the moment where the Scottish Registrar wrote: ?21^st Jun 1901, Belfast, Ireland? and ?16^th August 1887, Ballymoney, Ireland.? So do the certificates you have not say something similar? Do they really just say Co. Donegal? Could it in fact be Donegal town that is meant? Because that would be more typical. Also have you checked for every possible birth certificate, in case there?s one with a bit more information?

If they did come from Donegal town, then that?s in the RC parish of Tawnawilly, and the bad news is their baptism records only start in 1872!

You should get both their parents names from their death certificates (assuming they died in Scotland). Hopefully you already know that.

Another option might be to check Scottish Poor Law records. Many Irish migrants to Scotland claimed under the Poor Law. If they did, in general the records will record the persons parish of birth or origin, often with details of next of kin. You say the family lived in Glasgow and Kilsyth. The Glasgow Poor Law records are in the Mitchell Library. (They?ll do a look up for you for a fee).

http://www.glasgowlife.org.uk/libraries/the-mitchell-library/Pages/home…

 Kilsyth is in Stirlingshire. Not sure where their records are kept but I dare say a search on Google should tell you.

Finally, the spelling of the surnames Docherty and McLauchlan suggests that they have been adjusted to the Scottish style when the family moved there. It?s not impossible that those spellings were use din Ireland but I?d really expect that they were Doherty and McLoughlin (or similar) in Ireland, and so those are the more likely spellings in Irish records.

Elwyn

Thanks Roger and Elwyn - keep us up to date with any new info you find Marian!

Best wishes
Clare Doyle
Genealogy Support

Thistle,

What?s the answer to my question about what it says on the other children?s Scottish birth certificates about date and place of marriage? That might unravel your mystery.

Elwyn

Hi Elwyn

Once again thank you for all the guides you have listed here. I am still working on some of them.

Its just so strange that I cannot find any death certificates for either. At present I am looking into other family members for their certificates and I know first child (daughter) was born in Scotland and hoping the certificate will show more parents info.

The other family members are just as difficult to find but I am going through them one at a time. They all lived or were born in Kilsyth so I need to arrange a visit to the parish in the new year.

What I have discovered is that in the space of 50 years the name spellings come in many forms...Doherty Docherty Dockerty Doughtery etc etc so again working through these as wild card spellings doesn't produce much.

Thank you both for your help and hints. Will let you know if I discover any more info.