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Looking for parents

My great grandfather was Patrick Boylan. On his enlistment papers for WW1 it states St Cathines,Dublin as his parish. He was born about 1866 or maybe 1864. On his enlistment papers I have his sistes name as Christina ( I believe she married Edwards Hughes and ran a boarding house) On Patricks wedding certificate it names his father as John also a soldier. Patrick first enlisted at 14.

Patrick stayed in army and spent the rest of his life in England with the royal kents.We have his army records.

Wondering if there are any parish records on Paricks family. His son came to NZ in 1924,we have no family records so know little of his Irish family. 

Thankyou for any information 

 

eevee

Sunday 2nd November 2014, 08:04AM

Message Board Replies

  • Military papers usually record place of birth as the civil parish.

    There are both Catholic and Church of Ireland parishes in Dublin city named St. Catherine's. Do you know what denomination this Boylan family were ?

    Records for both St. Catherine's are on the free IrishGenealogy website, also if Patrick was born in 1864 or later then there should be a civil record of birth. This should provide his father's occupation, which could help confirm a link to the correct family (RC baptisms dont usually include occupations).

    I had a quick search through the two St. Catherine's on the IrishGenealogy website but didnt spot anything likely for your Patrick. will check in more detail later on..

    shanew147

    Sunday 2nd November 2014, 08:37AM
  • a marriage of an Edward Hughes and Christina Boylan in St. Michan's Catholic parish in 1878. So if correct then looks like this family were RC, and her parents shown as John and Anne. (You may have to enter a Captcha security code to view the record transcript)

    St. Michan's is in Dublin North City, St. Catherine's is Dublin South

    shanew147

    Sunday 2nd November 2014, 08:42AM
  • thanks for looking. do you think that St Michans might be the family parish instead. Can we assume that a marriage would take place in the brides family church. I was thinking that it would be unusual for a family to have just the two children as well.
    I know that Christina stayed in Ireland and died in 1940. Grant, Patricks son visited when his regiment were stationed there and wrote to the family as the address was in his soldiers diary.

    eevee

    Sunday 2nd November 2014, 09:01AM
  • Marriages usually took place in the bride's current parish, which may not be where she was born. I wouldn't discount St. Caterine's as Patrick's civil parish of birth, but since the family are RC it changes the search a little, since RC and civil parishes dont ness. cover the same areas. Christina sounds like the best lead at this point - did her story, and the detail about the boarding house get passed down through the family ?

    I'll have a look for Christina and Edward on the 1901 & 1911 census returns - establishing an age/estimated year of birth for her is the next step...

     

    shanew147

    Sunday 2nd November 2014, 09:38AM
  • a possible baptism for Christina, definitely worth noting - and comparing this year of birth with her age on the census once I find her... would place her age at about 22 at marriage. A civil cert for her marriage would show her father's occupation. Let me know if your interested in following that up and I'll have a search for the references you need to order a research cert.

    Baptism of Christina Boylan of 72 Pill Lane on 29 December 1856   (St. Michan RC)
    Parent John Boylan and Anne Vaughan.

    People, especially those less well off, moved around in the city so if this is the correct family for you Patrick it's possible that they ended up in Dublin south at some point later on..

     

     

     

     

     

    shanew147

    Sunday 2nd November 2014, 10:04AM
  • Census returns for the Hughes family for reference (age matches up with that baptism) :

    1901 - Edward, Christina and children at Church St. (North Dublin)

    1911 - Christina and children at Church St.   (Christina is a widow)

    The street address for both is 166 Church St. more usually known as Old Church St. (the numbers on the returns are enumerator references, but in this case they are the same). Thom's directory of 1906 lists 166 Old Church St. as 'E. Hughes dining rooms'

    No sign so far of any other children to this John and Anne, but there is a likely marriage for that couple, also in St. Michan's RC : Marriage of Joannes Boylan and Annam Vaughan - 3 February 1856

     

     

    shanew147

    Sunday 2nd November 2014, 10:24AM
  • the following extracted civil birth looks like a sister to Christina born after the start of civil registration - no name recorded at registration, but listed as female. Her parents may not have finalized a name when they registered her.

    Birth Date : 19 May 1865
    Birthplace : 0626, Dublin
    Name : [female]
    Parent's Names : John Boylan & Anne Vaughan
    See : link

    The 0629 in the 'address' is a page reference which can be used to locate the index record needed to order a cert. A research birth cert will include place of birth, probably name of the street if born in the city, parent names and father's occupation

    The only other definite sibling to Christina showing up is a James Boylan baptised to that John and Anne in 1858, also St. Michan's.

    There is one possibility for your Patrick as Patrick Joseph, although it would mean that the place of birth he gave on military records was incorrect - it's an 1863 baptism also St. Michan's RC and in 1863. The parents first names are John and Anne, but there's no maiden surname given for Anne. There is at least one another John Boylan and Anne couple in Dublin north city at that time and in the, with this Anne's surname is Murtha. They appear in St. Agatha, also Dublin north city, but a bit to the east in Ballybough, so I'd say that 1863 Patrick J. matches up with your Boylans ok.

    p.s. a Sarah Boylan appears as a godparents for James - possibly a sister, or sister in law to John ?

     

     

     

    shanew147

    Monday 3rd November 2014, 08:02AM
  • The information is great. The only detail we have was from Grants diary and searching and getting certificates. Thanks for what you have found for us. We're deaths registered as well? 

    eevee

    Monday 3rd November 2014, 08:36AM
  • Full civil registration, including that of deaths, started in 1864. Catholic parishes rarely kept death/burial records, so can be difficult to trace deaths before this. For people that lived in or near Dublin city it's definitely worth checking burials in Prospect cemetery, Glasnevin. They have a pay-website, but you can figure out a few details from the index.

    Which deaths are you looking for ?

     

     

    shanew147

    Monday 3rd November 2014, 08:48AM
  • Looking for the deaths of the parents John and Anne. Sometimes cemeteries have detail on headstones. Thank you for helping

    eevee

    Monday 3rd November 2014, 09:21AM
  • John could be difficult since he's a soldier, he could have been posted anywhere - in theory Anne could have been at his various postings with him. 

    Based on the children's years of birth and date of marriage for John and Anne, it would appear that she is likely to have been born any time before about 1838  (i.e. age 18 at marriage). She was alive up to at least 1865 when that youngest daughter was born, so give some sort of date window for a death search. I'm guessing she died before 1901, as a quick search of the census showed no likely matches, but worth double checking that...

    Assuming she died in the same area of Dublin city as those baptisms and her marriage, i.e. Dublin North, then there are a few matches for her death that are worth following up to start - see : here (FamilySearch).

    a few of the possible matches :

    Name     Anne Boylan
    Event Type     Death
    Year     1866
    Registration District     Dublin North
    Age     32   (est. year of birth 1834)
    Volume 12 / Page 379

    Name     Anne Boylan
    Event Type     Death
    Year     1875
    Registration District     Dublin North
    Age     38  (est. year of birth 1837)
    Volume   2 / Page   586

    Name     Anne Boylan
    Event Type     Death
    Quarter and Year     Apr - Jun 1892
    Registration District     Dublin North
    Age     54 (est. year of birth 1838)
    Volume   2 / Page   453

    Confirming matches for death certs is much more difficult than baptisms or marriages as they dont include much detail, but the addresses and the name of the informant can sometimes help confirm a match. Certs for women can mention husband's occupation which could help in this case also. It can often require ordering a number of death certs to try and find one that matches the correct family, even for the less common names.

    The Glasnevin website is at this link , and there are quite a few Boylan entries listed. The details they have are burial records for the plots, and can include family groups. I think it would be be better to narrow down a possible date before starting a search of these.

    There are Memorial Transcripts (i.e. Headstone Inscriptions) and photos for Glasnevin on the IGP Website, but note Glasnevin is a very large cemetery and only parts have been covered in this project. (The official Glasnevin site should cover all records, and include burial details for plots even when there is no headstone)

     

    shanew147

    Monday 3rd November 2014, 10:14AM
  • Just found that Christina Hughes is buried in Glasnevin, and also a good possible match for Edward's burial in 1905, so might be worth checking the details on the Glasnevin site for those to see if other family are buried in the same plot(s)

     

     

    shanew147

    Monday 3rd November 2014, 06:09PM
  • You have found a great deal of information from my little bits . Growing up a Boylan in new Zealand we had no Boylan relatives but for our family. This is very interesting and I will be sharing all this info with my extended family

    eevee

    Tuesday 4th November 2014, 06:27AM