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Hi,

I am researching my 2nd great grandparents (George William Robinson b. 1821 and Sarah Hodgins b. 1829). I found a marriage record for them on Ancestry (Ireland, Select Marriages 1619-1898) which shows that they married on 24 Dec 1846 in Clane. However, I recently found another marriage record on Ancestry (Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages 1845-1958) with their names and their year of marriage which lists "Naas" as the registration district. On Roots Ireland, I found a record of baptism for their first child, Sarah Jane Robinson baptized 26 Aug 1847 in Clane, Kildare. Their religion was Church of Ireland. I couldn't find a baptismal record for their son (and my direct ancestor) George Harper Robinson b. 1848 or one for their daughter Catherine b. 1853. I found one for their son John James Robinson, baptized 19 Nov 1856. It lists his father's occupation as ex-constable.

Some time between 1856 and 1859, the family moved to Toronto, Ontario, Canada where their daughter Caroline was born in 1859. George William Robinson was on the Toronto police force in 1860.

I have found a few trees on Ancestry which show that the Hodgins family was from Dublin. Sarah's parent's names were John Hodgins and Sarah Harper both born around 1808 and died in Toronto. Sarah's brother was William Richard Hodgins b. 1 Mar 1836 d. 2 Jul 1930 Toronto. His death certificate lists his place of birth as Dublin.

I would appreciate any help of suggestions!

Caralyn Robinson Zeitler

 

 

czeitler

Wednesday 22nd March 2017, 07:07PM

Message Board Replies

  • Caralyn:

    Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

    The second marriage record on Ancestry would be the civil marriage record. Clane parish is within the Naas registration district. The first record would be the church record. Non-Catholic marriages were civilly registered starting in 1845 and Catholic marriages started in 1864.  

    I looked up the civil marriage record and for some reason, it does not show the names of the fathers of the bride and groom.

    I also checked Roots Ireland and could not find the baptismal record for the 1848 George Robinson.

    Dublin city church records are on www.irishgenealogy.ie

    Roger McDonnell

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 22nd March 2017, 07:56PM
  • I believe the record on 'Ireland, Select Marriages' originates from a collection on FamilySearch which is based on partial extracts of civil records see here The 0419 in the location is the Register Page number which corresponds to the full index entry here.

    These extracted records are not consistent with regard to location, some just have county, others name registration district or even a town or church. In this case 'Clane' could refer to the town of that name or registraton sub-district of Clane, both of which were covered by the civil registration district of Naas.

    You can use the reference on the index to order a research cert which should show father's names - see : option 1 at this link

    shanew147, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 22nd March 2017, 08:14PM
  •  

    Thank you so much for the information! So you think even though the civil marriage record didn't have the names of the parents, I should order a copy? I already know the names of Sarah's parents but I would love to learn the names of George's parents!

    I was wondering if Sarah was from Dublin, they didn't get married in Dublin? Should I join the Dublin group to see if I can get information on the Hodgins family?

    Caralyn

    czeitler

    Thursday 23rd March 2017, 07:01PM
  • Caralyn:

    Shane and I exchanged e-mails on this issue. I actually did not see the civil marriage record as I indicated in my response, I saw a transcription.of the civil record and as Shane indicates in the first paragraph of his comments what I saw is likely a partial transcription.

    "I believe the record on 'Ireland, Select Marriages' originates from a collection on FamilySearch which is based on partial extracts of civil records see here The 0419 in the location is the Register Page number which corresponds to the full index entry here. " 

    So the advice is to order the record if you are inclined. To clarify, civil marriage records only show the names of the fathers of the bride and groom.

    No need to post in a Dublin parish since all messages end up on the main board anyway. Dublin city church records can be found at this free site www.irishgenealogy.ie 

    Roger

     

     

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Friday 24th March 2017, 11:06PM
  • Hi,

    So I ordered the marriage certificate and as my luck would have it, it doesn't have George Robinson's father's name on it. It just shows that Sarah Hodgins father was John Hodgins, shoemaker (which I already knew). George's profession is listed as Constable. I'm wondering why he wouldn't have listed his father and if you have any research suggestions for me?

    Caralyn

    czeitler

    Wednesday 12th April 2017, 04:50PM

    Attached Files

  • Hi,

    So I ordered the marriage certificate and as my luck would have it, it doesn't have George Robinson's father's name on it. It just shows that Sarah Hodgins father was John Hodgins, shoemaker (which I already knew). George's profession is listed as Constable. I'm wondering why he wouldn't have listed his father and if you have any research suggestions for me?

    Caralyn

    czeitler

    Wednesday 12th April 2017, 04:51PM

    Attached Files

  • Doesn't happen very often, but pity it did in this case... definitly worth a try anyway.

    Unfortunatly there's no way to be fully certain as to why George wasn't able to provide details of his father - he could have been raised in care or by relatives, and never knew his father, or possibly was illegitimate or estranged from his family.  It could be as simple as the priest/registrar forgot to note this, or enter this in the register. Are there any other possible clues on the cert - in the names of the witnesses (maybe relatives), or in the residences for the bride & groom ?

    Since George is a constable, and presumably serving at the time of marriage, he may have been with the Royal Irish Constabulary (R.I.C.). There are records of service for the R.I.C. but the entries are not very detailed, but do include county of birth, and also the name of the person that recommended them for service - usually a prominent person in the area. The original R.I.C. records are held by the National Archives at Kew (England), and there are copies held by various  libraries here. LDS/FamilySearch also have films of these records. The Museum of the Police Service of Northern Ireland P.S.N.I. will, for a fee, check for details for you.

    During their time with the R.I.C. men were not usually allowed serve in their county of birth, or that of their wife.

    There is an index of R.I.C. men on Ancestry which is derived from one of the FamilySearch film, although I'm not sure how complete this is. This shows at least two possible matches a George Robinson, enlisted 1832 age 20 born Co. Down noted as married, and a George Robinson, enlisted  1838 age 21 born Co. Fermanagh also noted as married. As far as I remember they had to serve for at least seven years before they were allowed marry.

    I have come across a number of people listed as Constable that could not be located in R.I.C. records, possibly they were somethimg a little more informal, maybe a employed as a night watchman or similar (these are sometimes listed as night-constable), or roughly equivalent to a modern security guard.

    shanew147, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 13th April 2017, 07:05AM
  •  

    Hi Shane,

    I attached a copy of the marriage certificate to my previous post. It says that George was living in Clane and Sarah's is blank. The witnesses were John Hodgins (Sarah's father) and Thomas (her brother). George was born in 1821 so I think the 1832 enlistment is out. 

    Thank you for all the information! I'll probably try PSNI. 

    Caralyn

    czeitler

    Friday 14th April 2017, 05:17PM