Lawrence Lawler from Athy

Apologies for the very long delay in answering your message. Have you learned any more about the above?

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

A Muster Roll in the The National Archives; Kew, Surrey, England,

WO 25; Class Title: 82th Foot 2nd Battn; Piece Number: 493; Piece Title: 82 Foot 2 Battn, taken on 7 Jan 1812

describes:-

Laurence Lawler, born in Castledermot, Co Kildare, height 5 ft 6 three quarter inches, sallow complexion, age 25 at that time, so inferred dob was abt 1786.

However Castledermot Baptism Records commence 5 Nov 1789!

see http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633364#page/2/mode/1up

Microfilm 06480 / 03

There is, however:-

A Laurence Lawlor who was born just 2 years earlier 15 km away in Athy, bapt 16 Apr 1784 in Athy RC, Kildare, parents Thomas & Jane Lawlor.

Lawlor vs Lawler! No problem, because at this time spellings, especially in rural parishes, was often phoenetic and had not achieved standardisation.

Especially as an earlier child of this same couple is registered as Betty Lawler, bapt 6 September 1780, also in Athy. The parents, Tom & Jane, were noted as residing in Kildare Street, Athy.

Your relatives, perhaps?

Michael Dixon

I guess patience does eventually pay off.  Thank you for responding to my quiry re Lawrence Lawler.  Since my post, I have uncovered pages of muster rolls but nothing that confirms that this Lawrence is my Lawrence.  He was quite often in hospital when roll was taken and he was medidically discharged with liver disease which support my theory that he never made it to America.  However, I have not found and death records to prove that.  I have never come across records for Lawrence Lawler, son of Thomas and Jane but those names are seen repeatedly in ffamily records.  Betty is not familiar.  Did you uncover this Lawrence in the NHL catholic parish records?  My Lawrence had six children but I haven't found any records for their births.  Do you know if it was common for the wife and children to travel with the soldier?  I think we have narrowed my Lawrence down to one of the two guys mentioned above, now if I could just narrow him down to one.  Do you have any thoughts of where else I might go to find any records regarding this family.  Thanks so much for getting back to me.  Lynda Lawler Linaugh

Hi Lynda

Records of Deaths are not as common in Catholic Registers. In fact until quite late in history a Catholic Burial used to take place in a Church of Ireland Cemetery. After Catholic Emancipation of course Catholic Burial Grounds appeared in cities, and these deaths would then be recorded in registers.

However in rural areas Catholic families always buried their dead in traditional grounds, usually near the ruins of a pre-Reformation church, and no doubt the 'irregularity' of such burial grounds had mitigated against the local parish priest recording them as such.

Therefore Lawrence [probably spelt as 'Laurence'] may not have had his passing recorded. You really must continue your search for his death in a spirit of hope rather than firm expectation!

However Laurence/Lawrence has gifted you one bonus, his name, which is relatively unusual and therefore easier to find.

He also provided you with the bonus of his Army service as these records often survive. From them you will discover basic facts, including the names and ages of children. Often too medical records provide further details.

Officers and non-commissioned officers could bring their families to postings. A private soldier could be accompanied by his wife and family when he had accumulated sufficient service.

Laurence appears in the Athy Parish Register, 16 Apr 1784, which you can find at:-

http://registers.nli.ie/

You will find two his sibling Betty/Eliza/Elizabeth registered there, 06 Sep 1780

Intriguingly there is another later Laurence Lawler, bapt abt 1800, who married Elizabeth Betty Fitzpatrick, and had 6 children in St Margaret & Finglas RC, North Dublin, Ireland .

Patrick, bapt 24 Nov 1825

Mary, bapt 31 Aug 1828

Patrick, 27 Feb 1831

Bartholomew, 15 Nov 1833

Thomas, 26 Feb 1837

Esther, 04 Feb 1838

Are they related to you, well, only research or DNA would prove that!

But the Army Records are your first objective,

https://www.google.ie/#q=2nd+battalion+82nd+foot+soldiers

Gives you over 32,000 results to choose from.

A good Winter Project for you

And congrats on your Proven Irish Heritage

Enjoy

Michael

Hi, really long time responding.  I am descended from a Lawrence Lawler (@1795, Kildare?) who married Brigid Dennison (1794) in 1813.  I found one record of his hospitalization in 1825 for liver ailment, and discharge papers from 1832.  I am descended from their daughter Margaret (1820-@1890) who married a John Dunn in 1852 in Pittsburgh PA to which she her mother and another sibling emigrated to in 1850, Brigid died soon after.  No record of Lawrence.  Interestingly another Lawrence Lawler (1795 Ireland) lived in Pittsburgh at that time too, he married an Elizabeth McCue of Ireland and their first child was born about 1833.  I am wondering if perhaps these Lawlers were related; I cannot reckon that Brigid and her two grown children would have moved to Pittsburgh without any contacts.  I am trying to find out when their other kids came too, they did live with Daniel and many others.  Not sure if any of this helps four years after the fact!  I have the discharge record but for the life of me can't find the hospital record, starts with an E?  Mary Finneran, Cairo, NY

Hi Mary

I see your Laurence

Name:   Laurence Lawler

Event Type: Draft Registration   

Event Date: 7 Jan 1812

Event Place: County Carlow, Ireland

Event Place (Original): Carlow    

Age: 25

Birth Year (Estimated): 1787       

Birthplace: Kildare          

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPS1-HQYS

Problem, I have his baptism in Athy RC, Athy, Kildare, 16 Apr 1784!

Or maybe not!!

I have discovered that bifurcation, being two people at the same time, was certainly possible then, if a younger and under age brother or cousin joined the Colours using an elder brother’s baptism certificate!

A family member could create this useful ‘doppelganger’ in those times without much chance of being found out. Because the Recruiting Sergeant could have suggested it!! 

IF we have the real Laurence, he is the s of Thomas Lawler abt 1755 and Jane [Unknown].

Thomas 1755 is the s of Christopher Lawler, b abt 1735 in Ballaghmoon, Newtown, Kildare, and buried in that graveyard.

Christopher 1735 is my 5th ggf, and Laurence [the correct one] therefore my 1st cousin, 5 times removed.

Our military Laurence/Lawrance/Lawrence received an Army Pension

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5HT-WJQ

Both of these paperwork’s are available in the United Kingdom, Chelsea Pensioners' Service Records, 1760-1913.

Or free thru The Church of Latter Day Saints local Family History Center

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Introduction_to_Family_History_Centers

Regarding one or both Laurence’s above I see a Burial 16 May 1853, in St Mary’s RC Cemetery, Pittsburgh, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/142901477/_

This Laurence is described as 56/ 57 years, or born 1787 compared to 16 Apr 1784, which is not impossible, given that in a pre-passport/identity card era a precise knowledge of birth date required a visit to the baptismal church in order to consult the registers. Not possible in this case!

Also in a pre-pension, pre-social welfare era you worked until you dropped. Therefore, a certain ‘ambiguity’ in your age [downward] improved your ability to secure and hold a job against competition from younger folk.

Meanwhile another Lawrence Lawlor died in Athy SR District in 1868 aged 88 or born 1780.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namefm=&namel=Lawlor&location=Athy&yyfrom=1868&yyto=1868&type=D&submit=Search&sort=&pageSize=100&century=&decade=&exact=&ddBfrom=&ddMfrom=&ddDfrom=&ddPfrom=&mmBfrom=&mmMfrom=&mmDfrom=&mmPfrom=&yyBfrom=&yyMfrom=&yyDfrom=&yyPfrom=&ddBto=&ddMto=&ddDto=&ddPto=&mmBto=&mmMto=&mmDto=&mmPto=&yyBto=&yyMto=&yyDto=&yyPto=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&locationP=&keywordb=&keywordm=&keywordd=&keywordp=&event=&district=

Is he the original ‘template’ Laurence/ Lawrence?

Just as an aside in the early 1960’s I was introduced to the then proprietor of Lawlor’s Hotel, Poplar Square, Naas East, Naas, Co. Kildare, who verified that my Lawler’s and their Lawlor’s were related.

Although I never could independently verify a link between my Lawler’s, then of Suncroft, Kildare and these Lawlors of Naas, Kildare.

But the Story demonstrates this ‘looseness’ of surname [and Christian name] spellings then.

Over to the Experts

Stay Safe during this Pandemic

Agus Slàinte Mhaith to You and Yours

Michael

Thanks Michael, no time for a couple days to review all this, but as I do have confirmed that my Lawrence's wife Bridgid Dennison Lawlor did move to and subsequently die in Pittsburgh in 1850, that the Lawrence who died in 1868 would be the same.  I wonder about relations to the Lawrence who did live in Pittsburgh at the same time?  There is a record that he was in the census in 1830 in PA.  so my brief thought of bigamy ;-)  seems to be allayed as my Lawrence was discharged in 1832 in Ireland.   Thanks will review more when time allows, Peace, Mary

Hi again. One person on Ancestry lists a Lawrence Lawler as passing in 1845 in county Wexford.  I am contacting him to see if he can verify.  Makes the most sense.  But also makes sense that the Lawrence in Pittsburgh was likely kin as it would seem Bridgid would go to where there was family.  Will get back when I can, Mary