Timothy Ahern of Dirreen

Mary:

Baptismal records for Athea RC parish start in April 1830 and according to the subscription site Roots Ireland there are no Timothy Ahearn records in 1830 or 1831. Two possibilities: Timothy was baptized at Athea before April 1830 or he may have been baptized across the county border in Kerry but without knowing his parents names, we can't confirm any record located.

Civil registration of births started in 1864.

Timothy died in 1884. See fifth record at the link.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06311/4809611.pdf

Roger McDonnell

Roger, thank you very much!  I did not have this record.  The informant was my great grandmother before she emigrated to the US.  Timothy's age at the time of his death was reported as 73, so he was born about 1811.  I wonder where Catholics would have been baptized around 1811?  And, I assume by your response that the only way to know about his parents would be personal family records, assuming no church records exist?  The local parish church is St Bartholomews which was built about 1832. 

And a related question: Timothy and his wife, Bridget, had many children before and after 1864.  For those children born between their marriage date (1848) and 1864, is rootsireland the only option for a searchable record?  BTW, I am also in MD and some times go to the local Family History Center.

Thank you, again.

Mary:

There was an old chapel prior to the 1832 church but apparently no records exist. See this writeup from the 1837 Lewis Topographical Dictionary.

In the R. C. divisions this parish is the head of a union or district called Stonehall and Cappagh, comprising also the parishes of Cappagh and Nantinan; the old chapel is in the village of Stonehall, and a handsome chapel of hewn marble was built at Boherbuie, in 1832, at the expense of J. Waller, Esq. About 120 children are taught in the two public schools of this parish, one of which is supported by Mr. Waller; and there are two private schools, in which are about 170 children. Of the castle built by the Danes nothing is now remaining, and of that subsequently erected the vestiges are very slight. In the south-western part of the parish are some fragments of the castle of Carrigonan; and on the new line of road, near Holly Park, are the interesting ruins of the old church or priory of Killeen. Not far from Carrigonan are the remains of the small church, of Cillenalotor, 12 feet long and 8 feet wide, lighted by one narrow lancet window in the east gable, and having a very low pointed entrance on the west. Near Stonehall are some very small but interesting lakes, on the shores of which are vestiges of ancient buildings.

I took a quick look on Roots Ireland and found Helen March 10 1851 William May 5 1853 Mary August 27 1855 Edmond May 19 1858 Timothy September 6 1861.

I have not been there in probably 12 years but I spent many a Saturday at the Essex FHC.

Roger

Roger--Thank you, again.  That is a very interesting excerpt.  The distance between Athea and Stonehall is 39 km on today's roads, which seems like quite a distance for those days.  Mary

Mary:

39 km does not make sense. Possibly a different Stonehall.

Roger

Hi Mary
I may have useful info on Timothy and Bridget's children:
1) Mary born 25th August 1855
 2) Edmond born 19th May 1858 and may have died 12 July 1925
3) Timothy born 6th September 1861
4) Thomas born 8th May 1864
5) Bridget born 3rd December 1869
6) John born 5th October 1872
Edmond was married to my grandaunt Ellen Fitzmaurice (known as Ellie who died on 1st March 1962)) and they had no children. The land was farmed after both passed away by my uncle William Ahern who was a nephew of hers
The Maggie Fitzmaurice mentioned in your post was my grandmother who married William Ahern (no relation of Timothy's) and lived in the farm next to Timothy's.
The farm across the river was owned by James Ahern (no relation of either Timothy or William's) who married Ellen and Maggie's sister, Bridget Fitzmaurice.
All the best,
Ellen
 

Hi Mary
This is the amended version after doublechecking the accuracy of the previous info about Timothy and Bridget’s children and correcting the errors. 

1) Helena/Ellen baptised 10^thMarch 1851

2)William baptised 5^th May 1853
3) Mary baptised 27th August 1855
 4) Edmond baptised 19th May 1858 and may have died 12 July 1925
5) Timothy baptised 6th September 1861

All the baptisimal data is available in the Athea Parish Records which are available free online from the NLI (National Library of Ireland)

They are difficult to read because of the fact that they are hand-written and in Latin. It is very much easier to access the information by using the rootsireland website because the info is transcribed. However, it is subscription based
6) Thomas born 8th May 1864
7) Bridget born born 20^th December 1866
8) Johanna married on 8^th February  1902 in Athea RC Church to John Sheehy from Glenalappa in Moyvane Co. Kerry.

I am unable to find her birth details.

Hi, Ellen—Thank you so much for sharing information. And it is especially interesting information because it sounds like we can both point to how we are related to Edmond Ahearn.  He was my great grandmother's brother and you recognize him as the husband of your grandaunt, if I am following your information.  As always, this leads to more questions!  A few more issues come to mind:

1. 1. Edmond and Ellie's nephew who took over the farm was William Ahern.  Since his name was William Ahearn was he a blood relative of Edmond, and not Ellie?  Or, was he Ellie’s nephew because Ellie’s sisters, Bridget and Maggie, both married Ahearns?  In other words, who were the parents of the William Ahern who took over the farm after Edmond (Ned) and Ellie passed away? was the William Ahern who took over Edmond and Ellie’s farm born in 1916, to William Ahearn (born 1885) and Maggie Fitzmaurice (born 1888 and living with Edmond and Ellie in the 1911 census)?  I have a lot of William’s and Timothy’s in my family tree!  I once met the late Nellie Ahearn in church at St. Bartholomew’s one Sunday while visiting Ireland.  Perhaps, Nellie was the daughter of Maggie Fitzmaurice Ahearn, too?
   2. I’m sure you know the father of William Ahearn (the one b. 1885 and married to Maggie Fitzmaurice), was also a William.  I guess that senior William would be your great grandfather?  He was married to Margaret Shine, I believe.  Besides their son William, William and Margaret (Peg) Shine had athlete sons, Tim and Dan, who emigrated to the US.  I visited with Dan’s son, the late Fr. Donald Ahearn, in Chicago on several occasions.  We finally did a genetic test and found that we were a cousin match at some level.  Fr. Ahearn also did a Y-DNA test and he was not a match with my brother, so we knew we were connected through my great grandmother, Bridget Ahearn, and not her husband, Patrick Ahearn.  (To complicate my genealogy efforts, they were an Ahearn marrying an Ahearn.)  Given that DNA cousin match I had with Fr. Ahearn, I had assumed that my great grandmother’s father, Timothy, was in fact related to William Ahearn.  I thought it made sense because Edmond’s mother was Bridget Fitzgerald Ahearn, and her father was Edmond, so they would have followed the family naming convention.  However, I note that in your earlier posting you said Timothy and William were not related, so maybe I am missing something?
   3. Regarding your comment about Johanna marrying John Sheehy, it is interesting that he, too, was from Glennalappa, just like the Fitzmaurice sisters. (I have Johanna’s baptismal date as Dec 4 1869.)  Bridget and Timothy’s son, Timothy (b. 1861) married Ellen (Nellie) Sheehy and they lived in New York with their at least 5 children.  I don’t know if John Sheehy of Glennalappa was related to Nellie Sheehy.

Regards, Mary Ahearn

Hi Mary,

It was great to hear from you.

Apologies for not replying sooner, but, I was laid low with the flu at the end of last week.

Your correspondence throws up a number of intriguing issues.

It was my understanding that Edmond and William Ahern (married to Margaret Fitzmaurice) were not blood relatives. This is what was conveyed to my family by word of mouth when we were children. I am now questioning whether this is factually correct. DNA iseems to be pretty definitive in revealing genetic links.

There is evidence of possible closeness between the two households:

1) A William Ahern (as well as a Johanna Ahern) were witnesses for Edmond's and Ellen (Ellie) Fitzmaurice's wedding.

Could this be his neighbour William or his brother William? They  got married on September 19th 1901.Was his brother still in Ireland then or not?

2) In the Griffith's Valuation Records it is written that a parcel of land was shared 1/2 and 1/2 between a Timothy and William Ahern

  in Dirreen.

3) One  of the sponsors at the  baptism of Helena Ahern (1851) was a William Ahern.

Another possible connection between the two families may be a possible blood relationship between Bridget Fitzgerald and William (i.e. father of William Ahern married to Margaret Shine) Ahern's spouse Mary/Maria Quirke who also came from Abbeyfeale.  

I can confirm that Nellie Ahern was indeed the daughter of William and Margaret Fitzmaurice

She was much loved by us all, and, was an invaluable support to my mother Nora Quaid in managing the rearing of ten children, especially after my father's untimely death in 1963. Sadly, she passed away peacefully aged 95 in July 2020 after a life well spent, mostly in the environs of Athea.

As regards Johanna Ahern: I think I have discovered two "Joanam"s in the Athea Baptisimal Records, one baptised in 4th December 1869 and a second on 5th October 1872.I am wondering if this is because one is John and the other is Johanna or as happened in the Quaid family tree a William Quaid was born and died young and a second male child was also called William subsequently.

I agree that it would be interesting  to see if Timothy Ahern's wife was connected to Johanna's husband.

These puzzles are very intriguing and may lead in many different directions

Best regards,

Ellen

Hi, Ellen--Thank you for the reply and I'm sorry to hear you had the flu.  At least it wasn't covid.  My nephew has covid--again.  (BTW, he is another Timothy Ahearn, just to add to the challenges for future generations of genealogists.)  I was excited to see your information, and sorry it took me a bit to respond.  I am in the process of moving closer to my daughters and missed the email that IrelandXO likely sent out.

Most of my records are in my other location, but I seem to remember that, in addition to Griffith's, I saw Timothy and WIlliam on the same land in the Tithe's applotment records for earlier. Of course that doesn't help understand how they are related; they could be father and son or brothers.  

One of my future tasks is to do a better job of determining which of Bridget's siblings also emigrated to the US by looking again at the US records.  I have many records, but not clearly organized and entered into a tree, and those records include the sponsors at baptisms and marriages.  If I learn anything about this mystery, I will certainly share it.  And I appreciate you sharing your knowledge!

Regards, Mary

Mary,

I hope all is going well.

I am not much further on in my exploration of the possible blood relationship between

 William Ahearn (my grandfather) and Timothy Ahearn.

I am, however,

exploring the possible connection between your ancestors and mine because my great grandfather married a Maria Ahearn and their children were sponsors on a number of occasions for the children of Timothy and Bridget Fitzgerald Ahearn

Please find the details enclosed below

Please also supply your email so that we can correspond outside this forum (if you wish to do so)

All the best,

Ellen

Hi, Ellen--Thanks for the reply and work on sponsors.  I have something to send you, too, about which members of this family may have emigrated.  I would love to share emails.  Mine is mahearn54@aol.com.  Please email me and I'll send you a short Word file.

Also, are your paternal great grandparents William Ahern and Mary Quirke?  Do you know your great, great grandparents, too?  

Regards, Mary

Hello Mary,
I hope all is going well.
Just to let you know that I sent you an email outside this forum a few weeks ago.
I am wondering if you received it or perhaps it went into spam.
Please see my email address below, should you wish to use it to correspond further with me:

 nicuaid23@gmail.com
Best wishes,
Ellen

Hi, Ellen--Thanks for email address.  I did send you a message there.  I hope you got it. 

I never got your email, including in spam. I don't know what happened? Regards,

Mary

Hello Mary,

I hope you and your loved ones are well.

It is unfortunate that my original email didn't make it to the USA.

I sent a reply to your email via my private email address and now am convinced that it didn't arrive in your inbox this time either.

I may have some useful information regarding Helena/Ellen Ahearne (baptised march 1851)

There was an Ellen Ahearne (father Timothy Ahearne from Dirreen Athea) who married a Denis Daly (from Ballaugh in Abbeyfeale) in Athea Parish Church on March 24th 1881.

However, I cannot find any further information on them or their children (if any) Perhaps, they followed the Ahearne siblings to America after getting married. The death of Denis' father occurred in 1880 at the time of which his son Patrick was present. This may mean that Patrick got the farm. Denis was classified as a labourer on the marriage register and may have had the incentive to travel to America seeking a better life in the USA.

I have included info on the marriage of Johanna Ahearn to John Sheehy from Glenalappa.Data on  James Sheehy (father of John) is added in case he may possibly be connected to Timothy Ahern's wife also

As regards William Ahearne and Marie Quirke, I am afraid I have no further knowledge of their antecedents.

The intriguing question about the various spellings of  the Ahearne name is something I am totally ignorant of, but would be very interested in delving into further. A book written about the athletic feats of Tim and Dan Ahearne have postcards etc written by Tim in which he spelt his name "Ahearne". This is a useful but very incomplete bit of information on the issue raised.

All the best,

Ellen