Carroll Family

Dave:

Welcome to ireland Reaching Out!

There are two Thomas Carroll baptismal records in Bruff in your time frame. one in 1808 and the other in 1809. See below. Here is the parish register for Bruff http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0870  Records start in 1808.

Let me know how I can further assist you.

Roger McDonnell

Name:Thomas CarrollDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:31-Dec-1808Address:?Parish/District:BRUFFGender:UnknownCountyCo. Limerick
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Thomas CarrollMother:Mary RyanOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:McE KirbySponsor 2 /
Informant 2:My Kiely

Name:Thomas CarrollDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:08-Jan-1809Address:?Parish/District:BRUFFGender:UnknownCountyCo. Limerick
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Thomas CarrollMother:Bridget MoloneyOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Ml MoloneySponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Hon Quain

Hello again Roger!  You must be the webmaster here... ha, ha, ha !

I have seen those names and others that might be possibilities.  For the vast majority of possiblilites for parents, I cannot find a marriage record.  The marriage record might record the names of their parents.  I am working under circumstantial evidence that Daniel Carroll is either the parent or uncle of Thomas.  Sometimes when a marriage record is available on irishroots.ie, I cannot find a baptism record of their children.  I have undergone DNA testing on FamilyTreeDNA and joined several of the research groups.          Dave

Hi I cannot check as I am in Ireland now but your Bruff Carrols sound like my lot around Cloughprior.

Will look up when I return (and I will be in Bruff too) Robyn

I am helping my mother in law with her family history and she ties into this Carroll line in Blackville, Northumberland, New Brunswick.  She links in from Edward Carroll (1825-1900) son of Daniel Carroll (1783) and wife Anna O'Neal (1790)  Edward Carroll is married to Mary Ann McAdams (1825-1898) Then son Daniel Carroll (1850-1902) marries and has a daughter Wihelmina Carroll who marries John Whalen and my Mother in Law comes in from that line.  My Mother in Law's father is Wilhemina's son William Carroll Whalen (1930-1985)

We would love to know what information anyone else has to share too.  

We are working mainly on Ancestry.com and Familysearch.org

We live in the United States.

Alison

Hi Alison!  My family tree on ancestry.com is entitled "Fort Fairfield Carrolls."  My research shows Wihelmina Carroll is my 3rd cousin 3x removed.  You will see what I have documented going back to Daniel Carroll in Ireland and his mother and father Edmund Carroll and Mary Quane.   Daniel had a brother William who my guess is my great etc grandfather Thomas but I cannot establish a credible link.  

Dave Carroll

I will be in Bruff on 30 August 2019 staying in the Old Bank B&B for one night.  I have someone on the ground looking to identify a specific family site to visit.  Should I learn of something useful on the Carroll's that I have been posting about here, I will update here.            

hi Dave:

I will ask a local volunteer to contact you who lives in Bruff.  He will be able to assist or know someone who can.

All the best,

Jane

Thank you Jane!  Any help would be appreciated.  I am working with Sean Quinn from Ireland Heritage,  He will guide me and my two children for the first four days of our trip.  We will be on our own once we check-in at the Old Bank on Main Street.  Sean is taking us through Dublin, County Meath for the 9,000 year tour, County Offaly where we will be visiting our Bannon and Corcoran townlands, and finally into Tipperary and Limerick.

My immigrant 3rd great grandfather Thomas Carroll married Anne Carney in the British Colonies (now Canada.)  Anne's mother was Elizabeth Lyon and her ancestors can be traced back to the Lyon family of Glaims in Scotland.  Through the Lyon family I found that we have ancestors who originated from Normandy into England through William the Conqueror (my 2nd cousin).  Due to  the intermarriages of these people, I have ancestors who were the oppressors of the Irish people in addition to those who were oppressed!

We will be visiting the burial sites of Richard de Clare (aka Stongbow) a 24th great grandfather in Dublin, his father-in-law Diamait mac Murchanda, 25th GG in Ferns, Domnall Mor Ua Briain, 23rd GG in St. Mary's Cathedral, Limerick, to name a few.

It would be wonderful to find a specific Carroll site to visit!  Through Y-DNA testing at FamilyTree DNA, I am categorized as a possible descendant of an Eli sept.

Dave Carroll

Hi Dave:

Thank you for that information.  I have contacted Maurice and he is aware of your travel details.  He will reply to you shortly

All the best,

Jane

Hi Dave:

Thank you for that information.  I have contacted Maurice and he is aware of your travel details.  He will reply to you shortly

All the best,

Jane

Hi Dave:

Thank you for that information.  I have contacted Maurice and he is aware of your travel details.  He will reply to you shortly

All the best,

Jane

Hi Dave:

If you still need some assistance with Bruff ancestry, will you contact me directly?  I note that you have a service assisting you.  I can be reached at:  jhalloranryan@irelandxo.com

Kind regards,

Jane

Hello Dave,

I have left a  a message on this Bruff site but it did not quite reach this set of messages. My gt gt Grandfather was Daniel Carroll who lived in Limerick City during the 19th century but is likely on the basis of. family lore to have come from Croom. He worked as a coachman. Conceivably he is the Daniel Carroll shown in the Croom tithes. His estimated birth year is 1807 based on his age at death but sometimes these estimates can be inaccurate. The names Ann and Mary appear in the family. Hoping to hear from you,

Deirdre Carroll, Dublin email deirdre.carroll1@gmail.com

https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/message-board/deirdre-carroll

Just leaving a link to the message that Deirdre left but i see that she found you.

I contacted Deirdre via her private email.  Here was my reply:

Hi Deirdre and thank you for contacting me!

It would appear that your 2nd great grandfather is not the same Daniel in my tree.  I say that based on your estimated birth year of 1807.

The Daniel that I refer to was baptized in Bruff in 1787, married in Croom in 1812, father a child named Marianne in 1813, and would have emigrated to New Brunswick Province (later to be part of Canada) in 1815.  Daniel died circa. 1871-1881 in Canada.

I visited Ireland for the first time in late August and had a great time visiting Dublin, Newgrange, the Ring of Kerry, Waterford, and many other places in addition to meeting relatives.  I was in Cobh for the football championship between Dublin and Kerry that ended in a tie that day.  Of course the pub crowd was vigorously rooting for Kerry!

Hello Dave,

Many thanks for your reply which is a useful clarification.

I have researched "my" Daniel for a long time at this stage. There remains the possibility that they may be connected though we may never know how, given the difficulty with Irish records at that time. Daniel was not a common name then so the few I have found may be connected. It is a name associated with the famous Ely O'Carroll clan and in fact my brother Brian Carroll has the DNA associated with that clan. As manager of the DNA account, I have brought it as far as Y700 on FTDNA which is as far as one can go. Have you pursued that route? I find it can answer some unsolved questions. I have found several useful matches around the Limerick/Tipperary border.

Regards,

Deirdre Carroll

Hi Dave again,

I see you did in fact use FTDNA! Brian is kit 190806. There is a very useful Ely project group, managed by a person with the surname Biggens. It should be on your FTDNA results page,

Deirdre

Hi Deirdre!  Glad to hear from you again.

Yes, I tested with FTDNA at Y700.  Brian is grouped in the Munster project with the Elie-D-DF217>Z16281.  I am listed with the Eile-Other Subclades.  We do not appear together under the Family Matches section of FTDNA.

Very interesting comment on the Limerick/Tipperary border.  During my visit to Ireland, I went to the Parishes/Townlands of Bruff, Knockaney, Rathanny, and Bottomtown, all about 4 to 2 1/2 miles west of the Tipperary border.  Why?  One reason, because of the Quane surname.  According to the Griffith Valuation, Quane is a highly unusual surname.  There were only 37 households in Ireland.  Ten of those surnames were in Limerick (and seven in Limerick City.)  

According to my research, the Quane name was closely associated with the Carroll branch of my interest.  Mary Quane married William Carroll who had a son named Daniel baptized in Bruff.  Other Quanes are recorded as witnesses to various Carroll baptisms/marriages.  Other associated surnames from that area were O'Neill, Hogan, Slattery, Moloney, Moynihan, and Keane, all in that area also although more common names than Quane.

I visited a Quane family's homestead in Rathanny  (part of Knockaney Parish.)  The farm has been in their family for 260 years.  Back in 1820/1830, there was a William/Michael Carroll family living within walking distance.

My revised birth date for my 3rd great grandfather is 1803 which is on his tombstone in Canada as I have ruled out the 1813 date recorded in the Census.  I ruled 1813 out as I cannot find a feasible baptism record in those parishes.  Unfortunately, the church records only begin in 1808 or 1804 depending on the Parish.  Also, no record found for whom I believe is Thomas's sister, Anne.  I now suspect her birth is around 1803 which is also recorded on her grave stone in Minnesota.

As such, here is my new theory:  Daniel Carroll is an uncle or 1st cousin 1x removed from Thomas.  Daniel and his wife left their 3 year daughter, Mary, with Thomas's family.  Anne who would have been about age 12 and would looked after her cousin Mary, while Thomas helped his father on the farm.  Daniel and wife emmigrated to New Brusnwick Province and became farmers.  Twelve years later they paid for daughter Mary and her older cousins Thomas and Anne to journey to New Brunswich on a returning timber ship from the port of Limerick City.

The Carroll family story that I heard has Thomas, Anne and Mary as siblings.  But I now think Thomas and Anne were siblings and Mary was their cousin.  They all lived near each other in New Brunswick, Anne (now married) and Daniel are listed on the same census page.  Mary soon married a David Hogan who also probably came from Bruff.  A Daniel Carroll is recorded as a witness to the marriage.  Mary died about 1893,  Her Maine death certificate records Daniel Carroll and her mother as being born in Limerick as Mary herself was.  Thomas Carroll is buried next to his brother-in-law, John Whelan, husband of Anne Carroll in Howard, New Brunswick.  They are the first graves that you encounter when you leave the church.  The rural church as a plague dedicated to those Irish who built the church.

Dave Carroll

Thanks Dave,

That is all fascinating - you put a lot of work into the history of your Bruff forbears and their subsequent time in Canada.

My brother Brian is listed in a number of DNA projects, in particular the main one run by Biggins, which lists all the Ely O'Carroll matches for that clan, including the known descendant of Charles Carroll , the famous signatory of the American Constitution. Any of the matches I refer to locally for Limerick and Tipperary relate to Family Finder matches, which is more suitable apparently for recent genealogy, rather than hundreds or more years back.

For my own research, I have still not solved my Daniel Carroll's connection with Croom which remains a mystery. There are land records for this name but I cannot say for certain if this is him. What is certain is that he turns up in Limerick City and marries Honora Neligan in 1830 and worked as a coachman there. His son was Bernard, my gt Grandfather, born in 1831 who drove the mail coach between Limerick and Ennis.

Regards,

Deirdre

Hi Dave
My name us Deb McNeil. I am the Granddaughter of a Thomas Carroll, born in Mackay, Queensland, Australia. His father was John Carroll, born in Bruff, Limeruck and his father was, I believe, Patrick Carroll, also from Co.Limerick.
John emigrated to Australia and married a Margaret McDonnell in Mackay (I think 1885). I aks I think Patrick was married to a Mary (or possibly Margaret) Kelly.

I am at a total brick wall with John trying to find his birth records, and also where he went from Brisbane when his wife Margaret died at a ge 30, with a 6 week old daughter.

I am away from home atm, but when back I will find dates I do have and pass them on.

You never know, there may be an Australian link in there somewhere that could help with us and others down the track.

Cheers from Oz,
Deb

My 3rd gg is Johanna Hogan/married name Rudiger(Reid) Welland/Wainfleet area. All the names mentioned by Dave are in my tree on Family Search.

Hi JC!  From my public tree on ancestry.com entitled "Fort Fairfield Carrolls".  The spelling of her name is from her baptism record.  She was my 3rd cousin.

Have you identified where her father David Hogan was born in Ireland?  

Dave Carroll

Joanna Hogan

1829–

BIRTH 21 AUG 1829 • Nelson, Northumberland, New Brunswick, Canada

DEATH Unknown

3rd cousin 4x removed Add MyTreeTags™

Deirdre,

My DNA was rejected for inclusion in the Ely group that your brother is in.  Charles Carroll's grandfather was named Daniel and born in Kings County, I believe.  He had four sons, one of whom was named Charles.  That Charles had a son also named Charles, one of the signers of our Declaration of Independence.

As an aside, I visited Leap Castle in County Offaly.  Billed as the "most haunted castle" in Ireland, perhaps a tourist trap.  It has a bloodied history with the Carrolls.

Dave

Hi Dave. As far as I know David Hogan was born around 1800 in County Limerick Ireland. It states his death as 1869 in South Berwick York County Maine. This is what I found on Family Search.
Thanks Janet

I just found so much information on the carroll family and Family tree my father created before he died.  His name was William Reynolds Carroll and I my self am Bartholomew Rivers Carroll the 5th.   Are lineage shows direct decedents all the way back William the conqerer and Edward the first.  IT may shed some light on some questions people may have if its the same Carroll line.

Rivers

678-521-8001

Interesting... thank you for posting.  The gateway ancestor for my Carroll line is Anne Carney who married Thomas Carroll, assuming my research is correct.  Here is an outline of how I organized my findings.

The Carroll Family High Royal Ancestors and Viking/Angelo-Saxon/Norman/French/Italian/Other Relatives of Note

The gateway ancestor to European royalty for our Carroll family was Anne Carney who was the daughter of Elizabeth Lyon. Anne’s ancestors can be traced back over 1,000 years in recorded time.  Anne married Thomas Carroll, my 3rd great grandfather on 19 August 1836.  The family relationships detailed are to me.  Birth and death dates where available are not exact.

Sections:

• Great Grandfathers of Viking Origins (Norway, Sweden, Denmark)
• Great Grandfathers of High Royalty and of Norman, Scottish, French, Italian, and Ukrainian origins
  •  Map of Europe c. 1000
• Great Grandfathers of High Royalty with Angelo-Saxon and German Origins
  • Map of Britain 400-500 Angelo-Saxon Homelands
  •  Map of British Isles c. 886
• Great Grandfathers of Ireland Royalty
  •  Map of Ireland c. 850
• Other High Royal Ancestors
• A Few Other Great Grandparents of Note
• Ancestors Who Were Canonized as Saints
• “Proven Companions” of William the Conqueror in the 1066 Invasion of England, Battle of Hastings
  • Article on William Fitz Osbern
• Magna Carta Sureties