Lawrence Ryan of Cappamore Parish

Hi Daniel,  My gggf  was Laurence Ryan from Cappamore,  The name Laurence is a scarce one.

I have a lot of research done on my Ryan ancestors.  The Catholic records for Cappamore dont start until 1842,  which leaves one short of a lot of material.

Christina  Vol,  Irelandxo.

Christina,

Given the lack of material - what would you recommend my next step to be ?  Are there people that specialize in Ryan family histories ?

Dan

Hi Daniel, I am the only person researching my Ryan ancestors from Cappamore .  Ryan is the most common name in the area, as its just over the border from Co Tipperary,  which is full of Ryans.   They all have nicknames to  tell them apart.   My Ryan ancestors were Ryan Vora's..  I have most of the marriage and baptism records for Ryans in Cappamore.  I just went through them.  Found no marriage for Laurence and Mary Madden.   Madden is a popular name in Cappamore,  so  its probable she was from there. Do you know the naming pattern of their children,  it  would take you back another generation.

Perhaps he married in USA.  Did you manage to get shipping lists.  Let me know if you have any questions.  

Christina.

Christina,

Thank you so much for the help.  You have me as inspired as when I found "Cappamore" on the grave marker.  I am very interested to understand what my Ryan family nickname might be.  Yours sounds interesting.  Is there a story to it?  I read an article in the Limerick Leader where they have compiled more than 200 or something like that.  It is mind boggling.  

I got some help from the Marquette Regional History Center and Ancestry.com.  So - here's what I have.  I have a pdf file that pulls entries from the Marquette Mining Journal and pages from the Negaunee Cemetery where the family (minus my gr grandfather patrick) are interred.

I also have a Word document listing some of the U.S. census and death documents that I have from Ancestry.com.

Also, I contacted St. Pauls church in Negaunee.  The priest was kind enough to send me records he had in handwriting.  I have uploaded all.

In the beginning, I only knew who my Gr Grandfather was - Patrick Ryan.  He married an heriess to a coal fortune in Detroit, so naturally I was curious how an Irishman could be that educated and marry that high in an era of "Irish Need Not Apply".  I focused my search on information about their marriage.  When I found their marriage record it had Patrick's parents listed as Lawrence and Mary.  I had finally found the key - 1 step closer to Ireland.   Some research on Ancestry helped to to locate them via the 1870 U.S. census.  All living in Negaunee AND with Patrick Ryan listed at the correct age.  What I learned was the sobering truth about emigrants and first generation Irish living hard lives and dying early in tough living environs.  Patrick is a good example of the power of education.  

I have never been able to locate a marriage document for Lawrence (Laurence) and Mary Madden.  I have not been able to locate Lawrence or Mary definitively in any ship manifests - although I have 3 possibilities for Lawrence.  The first evidence that I have for their life together is the birth of their first child:

1.  Annie born 1855 in Portage MI, while Lawrence was working in the copper mines. Died 1872 of Consumption
2.  Julia (Lilia) born 1856 in Negaunee MI and died 1878 of Consumption
3.  Miss Mary (Maria) born 1858 in Negaunee, was a dressmaker and died 1878 of Consumption
4.  Margaret (Maggie, Margritta) born 1863.  Was a teacher and got married to a Patrick Ryan died 1890 of Consumption.  Maggie was the last of Patrick's family to die of Tuberculosis.  Her obituary mentions "Her only brother, Patrick, arrived here from Detroit about two weeks ago and was in constant attendance at her bedside to the last."  I feel this must have been terribly difficult for Patrick and that Maggie was likely the source of his first education.  
5.  Ellen "Nellie" born 1864 in Negaunee died 1880 of Consumption
6.  Patrick born 3 Oct 1865 in Negaunee, becomes Bookeeper, Marries Felice Viger, has 3 sons (Lawrence, Edward and Robert) dies 8 Feb 1934 in Detroit Mi.
7.  Bridget born 1869 in Negaunee, dies 29 Apr 1869

In the 1880 census Mary Madden Ryan is living in Negaunee with Margaret Ryan, Ellen Ryan and Patrick Ryan.  There is a 23 Yr old male listed as her brother living with them named Phillip Madden.  At this point Mary is 52 - so there's a large age gap there.  Perhaps Phillip was a cousin?  

Phillip marries later in 1880 to a woman from Canada named Maggie Calligan.  He becomes a saloon keeper and the head of the volunteer fire department.  I have many obituaries of him (attached).  On his death certificate Phillip lists his birthplace as Limerick County Ireland.  He lists his parents as James and Martha.  I have a 21 year old P. Madden arriving in New York on 22 Apr 1873 from Liverpool on the Italy.  If he was 23 in 1880 census - then I have a 5 year age gap between that and the arrival date.  However, his obituary mentions that he came to Negaunee in 1873.  How one pinpoints the identity of a single male in a ship manifest is beyond my capability :)

I hope this helps, but I know it is a long shot.  I suppose I have fantasized that there is some Ryan family lore on the Limerick side about a second son name Laurence who married Mary Madden and took off for Canada.  I do realize that if he did emigrate in the 1840s, that he more likely the rule than the exception.  

I found a Lawrence Ryan arrived 30 May 1848 into NYC on the Louisa.  I found a Lawrence Ryan aged 22 arriving on the Atlas.  I have mis-placed the date of that ship's manifest.  I also have a ship 1850 manifest of the Roscins where a 40 year old Mary Ryan is traveling with Lawrence (10), Pat (8), Martin (6), Edward (3), Michael (inft) and a 24 Yr old Laborer named Lawrence.

In any event - it is a pleasure to know you Christina of the Ryan Vora's.

Warmest Regards,
Dan Ryan

Hi Dan,  I did not see your last reply of  26 April until today.  I am still doing the Ryan Vora tree,  I still  have a feeling your Laurence, ancestor may be a relative.  Did you get death cert for him , it would give you the names of his parents.

I would be very happy to exchange material witg you or give you any help I can,  you can email me at  mallow1@irelandxo.com,   best of luck and regards.

Christina.

Christina and Dan, 

My great grandmother was Julia Ryan from Cappamore, County Limerick. She was the second wife of James Kennedy, my paternal great grandfather. He was from Pallas Grean, Limerick. I, too, had always heard from our family that there was such a proliferation of Ryans in that area that they differentiated with nicknames. We were part of the Ryan-Simons, as I think Simon was Julia Ryan's father's name. From the untion of Ryan and James came my grandfather, Simon Kennedy, who came to NYC in the 1920's with his wife Margaret and their firstborn child. They settled in upper Manhattan and later, the Bronx and Queens. We go to Ireland all the time and know our Kennedy side well and also my Mom's side from Sligo. Not sure why we don't know as much about the Ryans from Cappamore. I had always thought she was from Tipperary, but I was incorrect. I know that she had brown eyes, the only person in my direct line, as we are all blue eyed. I have a photo of her when she was older, next to a garden gate. She looks petite. We may be distantly related. My son and my brother have done their DNA with 23 and me. Let me know if any of my information rings a bell with your family history.

Best Regards, 

Kerry

Hi Kerry and Dan. My ggmother wa Johanna married in 1860.. Her sister Catherine married 1854, A laurence Ryan was Witness at her Marriage,  This probably could not be Dans ancester as  Dans feels from his research, his ancestor entered USA, in 1844.  With lack of Church records naming patterns is about the only way to try and make them out.  I have done DNA test but have not got back results yet.  In the meantime I would be very happy to exchange material with you both.   My email address is mallow1@irelandxo.com.

Christina Vol Irelandxo.

Christina and Kerry,

I have been corresponding with a Kevin Ryan from Ballyadam.  He has shared an image of his tree that his father has written on butcher paper.  He has told me that he is a "Chicken " Ryan descended from Cornelius and has lived in Ballyadam for 5 generations.  I say this for 2 reasons,  the tree he shared is fascinating since there is significant overlap in names between my ancestor's children (Lawrence Ryan born in Cappamore ca. 1821) and the tree.  Not only ar there many Laurence's (Kevin's father is named Lawrence) there are many Johannas, Julias, Patricks, Mary's and Margarets.  His first Johanna (Keough) married Cornelius sometime in the early 1800's.  2 generations he has a Johanna Ryan marrying an O'Connor around 1900.

The second reason I mention it is, if you're interested - it may prove to be a wealth of Ryan information.  

Next, Upon further review of Lawrence Ryan and Mary Madden, the first record that I have of their existence is the birth of their daughter Annie in 1855 when Lawrence was 34 ish.  So, it is possible that he was present at your ggmother's wedding.  It is possible that Lawrence and Mary were married in Doon or Cappamore and emigrated together.  I say Doon because Mary's brother Phillip was baptised there 23 Dec 1855.  His residence is listed as Gurtvalla.  His father is listed as James Madden and Mother is Martha Flemman.  (Is there a significant age differnce between Phillip and Mary Madden - yes).

I have completed my DNA test with Ancestry.  I have also uploaded my data to a site called GedMatch - which i hve heard has interesting matching.  Of note - it told me I should have blue eyes.  I do not ;)

Christina I'll also forward this note via email.  

Dan