Kirby's of "Turbary Hall"

Hi Margaret

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

Neither have I had any luck finding out about Turbary Hall. I have checked, for example the National Library of Ireland sources database for info on manuscripts and archives on the subject of Turbary Hall without any luck. I think that it would be a good idea is to contact the local Historical Society for some "on the ground" knowledge. I will see if our Murroe volunteer can assist.

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support 

Hi Margaret, I can confirm that Turbary Hall no longer exists. You are correct it was in Killonan, after the Kirbys left there arount the 1860s my ancestors the Grimes family moved in there. The site and ruins where the house stood have now been demolished to make way for a stone excavation works. My father was able to show me these ruins as pointed out to him by my grandmother many years back and i went looking for them a few years back only to find them gone! I was gutted ! All the Grimes children born in the 1880s onwards have Turbary hall on their birth certs.

Hi Jay! This is fantaqstic news- although sad. This solves one of my mysteries. I ahve only recently learnt about Turcary hall. I ahve found a newspaper articvle for the sale of the buildingh and lands in early 1864 there are descriptions of the property, the house and the lands. What else do you know about the hall? Any detail will be interesting to me. Anything anyone said about it. It's size- whterther it was small or grand or or did it just hve a grand name? What stone was it built with? Was it big enough to house several families? Do you know anything at all about the Kirby's who lived there before your family? Did it have tenant farmers?> What was the history of teh building? Why was it allowed to become a ruin? Did your family also move away? I am still trying to ascertain why my Kirby's came to australia. Suggests that there was nothing more for them in ireland? Were there other dwellings on the peoperty? 

So even the smallest bit of information will help to build a pircture. All my family were born there too. At least for two generations starting the 1700s sometime and may be longer. The land was owned by the Earl Of Clare and had been given personally by him to the family to farm. I dont know if there was more of a link to the Earl or not. He was pro Irish independence and there is strong evidence that my family ws quite politically active as well. 

So thank you so much for responding to my questions. That your family also dwelt in the same house makes it feel like we are family connected. Cousins of sorts! Are you still in ireland/ Is there anything you can tell me about Killonan?

Margaret Kirby

ps sorry about the typos- written in breathless great haste!

Thanks Margaret!

Best wishes

Clare

Ireland XO 

Hi again Margaret, sorry I cant really give you any more info indeed you probably know more than me about it ! All I do know is that all my ancestors the Grimes family lived at Turbary Hall and were present there during the 1901 census. I have a pic somewhere of an aerial photo taken a few years back, one of when the ruins can be seen and one of now that they are gone. I too would love to find out more about the place as i only live a few miles from where it stood. I trawled the internet a few years back but there is little to be found of it.

I am on facebook as James Graham if you would like to friend we could talk more and i could send you on the pic.

Actually Margaret ....... here are both pics !

With regard to the Grimes family i m not sure if they moved in in 1864 or later but i know they were there in 1901 and had moved into a smaller house just a few hundred metres away by the 1911 census. At this stage the hoyse was owned by my great grandfather Michael Grimes and his wife was deceased as were my great great grandparents. My great great grandfather Patrick Grimes from Coonagh appears to be the man who bought the house but information on him is very limited. His wife Catherine is the first person buried in the Grimes grave in Mount St Lawrence cemetery Limerick in 1890 .

Hello James, and Margaret! I have already connected with you both, and know the storoes so far. In fact we brought Margaret to Ireland with us a good while ago. Isn't it frustrating when we arrive at a brick wall! My KIRBYs may or may not be the same as Margaret's forebears. A James KIRBY married Mary HARTNETT from Murroe in 1887 in Kensington, London. Mary is the subject of the ballad, 'Mary from Murroe', after a certain Mr. Boney became infatuated with her after a harvest celebration. It seems that she saved her favours, and later met James in London.

My Mary was actually born in 1850, algthough she cheekily pretended she was born in the same year as James (1857). He (my grandfather) James, was born in the Ballyneety area of Limerick where he was farm worker. Mary was the daughter of a tailor in the village of Murroe.

We have met a delightful KIRBY family in Murroe, and act as if we are cousins although we have never established an actual link! My younger brother has bought a house near tghe village, and becomes very well integrated when he is able to visit Ireland.

I do know that both Mary & James had lost their parents by 1878 when they married in London, but have not managed to find evidence of Michael Hartnett's death. Hearsay, as far as I remember from my Dad, who died when I was 25, says that he was thrown from a horse but I have not managed to find any detail.

As for the KIRBYs, I have researched lots of possible great hrandfathers from the Donaghmore area, where James was baptised, but still have a possible eight. I believe that James and his older brother, Patrick Kirby, had different mothers after a bereavement. Patrick moved to London and mafried there before James arrived. I so wish that I could join up the jigsaw pieces and find the actual Irish ancestry.

Our Dad told us many stories about Ireland but alas, we did not write them down. He was born in London in 1893 and was extremely pro-Irish - we imagine that his mother kept Ireland alive in the minds of her four children in a lively way. Dad was in Ireland in the 1920s, in the Murroe area as well as Killaloe where he later lived. He was the first lay teacher at the newly opened Copsewood College in Pallaskenry. As you can imagine, he married late, aged 49, because in those days it was the youngest child who cared for the aging parents. Mary (nee HARTNETT) KIRBY died in December 1929, and James died in 1940. My parents had met during the previous decade when they were teaching on the same staff in a Catholic school in Bayswater. Any further information would be very gratefully received!

All the very best to you all,

Margi

Hi Margi!

I have made some incredible breakthroughs with my family history relating to my Kirby ancestors since we last spoke. For a start I finally "found" my great great grandmother Mary Kirby nee Blake in a marriage in Melbourne, Victoria, in 1853, which revealed that she was actually from Tipperary County and the names of her parents (Andrew Blake and Sarah Butler). The next major thing that has made a difference is the digitilisation of Irish records- available from irish library, ancestry and on Find My Past. Thirdly, and probably most importantly, the digitised Irish newspapers on Find My Past. I found a reference to Mary Blake and Philip Kirby's marriage in an Irish newspaper in 1833 which helped me also find their wedding reference in the parish records of Newtown parish Tipperary. The newspaper record said that Philip was from Turbary Hall in County Limerick. That set me looking for Turbary Hall- and since then I have found many siblings and learnt all kinds of details including descriptions of that property itself when it went to sale in 1864.  

I would strongly recommend that you check out Irish historical newspapers. A subscription to Find MY past is worth it for this alone, I reckon! I may just be lucky that it turns out my Kirby's were high enough status or had sufficient resources to be able to post their BDMs in the newspaper. A certain William Augustine Kirby- also from Turbary Hall, had a prominent public life and was a poor law guardian in Limerick and seems to have run for political office more than once. The actual relationship between him and my great great grandfather Philip is as yet unclear, but it does at this stage seem to be that they were brothers. But Im not certain. Given that they seem to have been reasonably well off I still cant figure out why, exactly, my lot came to australia. I know Philip died in 1849 (again from Newspapers) leaving Mary a widow with as many as nine children the youngest only three or four. Her arrival in Australia preceded her children by at least 2 years. The children seem to have travelled together to Australia wiothout chaperone. They were met by their mother when the boat, the Amazon, arrived in Melbourne. So many questions spray out from those facts.

The next option we have- and its no longer a crazy suggestion is to get DNA samples done. My cousin Jon Kirby is the only direct Kirby male descendent in Australia of our Kirby family that is living. he has already agreed to do a DNA test- we just havent got around to it yet! Maybe we could ask one of your brothers to do the same?

I have kept an eye out for Hartnetts  and Kirby's in my research- but part of the problem with our two families is that my family had already left ireland, entirely by late 1854. That's at least a full generation before your family information starts. I will never forget that wonderful meeting with the Kirby's of Murroe and how they all looked at me with complete amazement and said "Oh, We are not related to her". I must have looked so ridiculously exotic with my crimson silk velvet coat and my wild black curly hair! One of the most interesting revelations to me that I remember from their stories was that they seemed to understand that for famine era Irish, to come to Australia, that a family had to have resources. My subsequent research has largely borne that out. Not entirely, but for the most part- even the assisted immigrants. They still got treated like dangerous peasants when they arrived- but that's another story!

If you would like to know more about all the stuff that I have discovered and ho I discovered it I still ahve the same email address! 

Love to you and the whole Kirby family in the UK!

Margie x

Hi Jay and Margi!

Jay I am about to go to Ireland to do some research and I am wondering if you can give me an actual street addess to see where Turbary Hall used to be? I know its virtual where abouts but an actual address would amke all the difference!

Margi I sent you a long email on your old email address but it did not seem to work any more. I ahve just had my DNA done and I thought if you got your done with ancestry. com we could finally find out if there is a genetic match. It all seemed so remote when we laughed about it all those years ago! No we can! My home email is margaretkirby@optusnet.com.au. If you see this pleae contact me. We leave for overseas next monday.

Jay do you live in Limerick County? Perhaps we culd meet up? I could not find you on facebook when I looked last time. And then I blinked and several years had flwon by!

If you could try adn contact me on teh above email address asapthat would be wonderful!

Margaret Kirby, Australia

Dear Margaret:

Thank you for your updated post to the Ireland Reaching Out website.

If you need further assistance, or if we can facilitate contact with either Jay and/or Margie, please let us know.

Have a wonderful trip here!

Kind regards,

Jane.

Hi Jane,

I would love some help reaching Margi. I am having trouble reaching her. I only ave a very old email address and I think it no longer works.

Thank you,

Margaret Kirby

Dear Margaret:

I will get hold of her and send you an email with her details.

Thanks for letting me know.

Kind regards,

Jane.

Hello

I can confirm that ne of the Kirby children Ellen was born in 1814 at Turbury Hall. She died  6 JUN 1877 and is buried at Melbourne Cemetery. On the hedstone is "1814 • Turbary Hall, Limerick, Ireland. She was my 3X Great Grandmother.

Ellen married James Kinnae (1810-1867) in Ireland and had at least one child. The child was Daniel William Kinane 1841-1878), my 2X  Great Grandfather. He was born 12 DEC 1841 • Cordangan ,Tipperary, Co. Tipperary, Ireland.

The family did move to Victoria Australia.

Daniel married Bridget Corbett (1836-1901). Daniel William died on 17 July 1878 at Golden Gully, Sandhurst, Victoria, Australia. They had a son James Kinane (1864-1930), he was born in Daylesford, Victoria. My Great Grandfather. 

James Kinane married Margaret Ann Griffin (1871-1951) and had 4 children James daniel (1907-1911), Kathleen "Kitty" my Grandmother (1909-1990) and twins Florence and Mary (1912-....).

I would like to connect with decendents of Ellen Kirby.

Kind Regards

Ric Maguire

Apologies

Slight correction

Ellen married James Kinnae (1810-1867) in Ireland and had at least one child. The child was Daniel William Kinane 1841-1878), my 2X  Great Grandfather. He was born 12 DEC 1841 • Cordangan ,Tipperary, Co. Tipperary, Ireland. 

On Ellens headstone at Melbourne Cemetery it is written that she was born at Tunbary Hall. This is not Ellen the child but her aunt. 

My Great Aunt Ellen's parents were Phillip Kirby (senior) and Catherine Gleeson his wife.

I suggest that she and James took the children to Australia to meet up with their mother Mary Blake........could you check and/or give me the link for the Ship 'Amazon" in which the children sailed on in 1854 arriving Feb 1 1855 in Port Philip. You will find that there is a Ellen and James Kinane on board. 

Regards 

Ric

Hello Ric,

I am so sorry it has taken me so long to respond to your email. I would love to be incontact- it sounds like you are in Australia. I will check out the Amazon shipping record again and look for the Kinnanes. I thought I had found the Kinnanes arriving in Melbourne in 1853 and I actually thought may be Mary Blake had travelled with them. There is a big damaged gap on the shipping record and it pleases me to imagine that that is where Mary Kirby's name was. 

Philip Kirby and Catherine Gleeson are also my direct ancestors. Mary Blake was married to Philip Kirby and Catherine Gleeson's son Phillip, Ellen's elder brother. After Their father's death, my great great granfather was tasked with paying money to Ellen as her marriage portion. I am guessing that Ellen and her mother Catherine Kirby nee Gleeson all lived together at Turbary Hall where Mary Blake and Philip had their nine children. I think Ellen married James Kinnane in 1834. He was a school teacher and was also unvolved with the Daniel O'connell movement and gave published speeches about Irish Independence. He may have met Philip's brother William Augustine Kirby through political involvement and thereby Ellen and James may have met through him... Pure speculation. They had another sister Alice who married Mary Blake's uncle, Benjamin Blake from Knockfune in Tipperary- and were there fore doubly cousins to my family. At least one child of theirs also came to Australia- another Benjamin who was a shoe maker in Geelong. 

Mary Blake also had a brother who was transported in 1840 to NSW. He fell into troble with Lord Waller who was his former employer. 

If you are descended from the Kinnane's who came to Australia I would Love to meet you or speak on the phone. It is incredible that we had so many more Kirby relatives in australia than my dad ever realised!

My home email is margaretlouisekirby@gmail.com.

Kind regards,

Margaret Kirby

Hi Ric,

I just checked the shipping record of the Amazon arriving Port Philip on 1 Feb 1855 and the Kinnanes definitely were not on board. They arrived on the prince arthur in January 1853. The shipping record is very damaged and it is hard to read but they were in a family cabin berth- lucky them- although there were a lot of them!!

I think it not unlikely (cough-double negative) thT Mary Kirby nee blake travelled with them as she was defintiely in australia in 1853- having left all her children behind. It would make some sense for her to trvel with family- even in-laws, than to go to australia without her children on her own!

Anyway, if you ever get this message I would love to talk to you. I have a lot of information about our Kirby's of Turbary hall. Including Ellen. 

Kind regards,

Margaret Kirby