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Could anyone please advise if it's possible to obtain a marriage certificate from so long ago, and if so how do I do this?  My GG Grandfather was married on the 11 December 1835 in the Aglish RC Parish, Co. Mayo

 

 

 

 

Lyho47

Tuesday 18th June 2019, 06:53PM

Message Board Replies

  • Lyho47:

    Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

    Civil registration of RC marriages did not start in Ireland until 1864 so you can't get a marriage certificate. The parish register would be your only source. Here is the page from the Aglish register for December 1835

    https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000631981#page/48/mode/1up

    Possibly the church would write up a record for you similar to a baptismal record.   http://www.castlebarparish.ie/

    Roger McDonnell

     

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Tuesday 18th June 2019, 07:26PM
  • Thank you Roger, that was helpful although disappointing as I was hoping  a marriage certificate would provide the name of my GG Grandfather's father.  I have a copy of the baptismal record which unfortunately only gives his father's surname. Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

    Kind Regards

    Lynn

     

    Lyho47

    Tuesday 18th June 2019, 07:40PM
  • Lynn:

    It is very rare to find parents names on an RC church marriage record pre-1864.

    Roger

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Tuesday 18th June 2019, 08:53PM
  • Lynn, have you joined the parish? 

    I can't even read the names. 

    Maggie May

    Wednesday 19th June 2019, 01:23AM
  • Hello Maggie, no I haven't joined the Parish.  How do I do that?  Also, a correction to my post to Roger. I meant that father's name wasn't recorded on the parish marriage record, as I haven't yet found a baptismal record for my GG Grandfather (Lewis Farrell/Luis Ferral)  I know that in 1833 he was in the Irish Revenue Police as that was noted on the marriage record, so assume that he was then below the age of 25, and maybe born c1813.   Also, he could have been born in Meath as his wife was, but their son William, my Great Grandfather, and his brother Robert were both born in Mayo.

     

    Lyho47

    Wednesday 19th June 2019, 02:35PM
  • Hello again Roger.  Thank you for the Aglish RC Parish link.  I obtained details of the date and Parish of marriage from Roots Ireland, but  interestingly, I couldn't find the details of the marriage on the Aglish Parish link you sent to me.  However, a link via Ancestry clearly has the marriage recorded, but from Tuam Castlebar. Would that be a different Parish?

    Lyho47

    Wednesday 19th June 2019, 02:58PM
  • Lynn:

    Aglish and Castlebar are the same parish. The parish is within the Archdiocese of Tuam so likely that is why Tuam Castlebar was shown.

    Roger

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 19th June 2019, 03:30PM
  • Thank you Roger.

    Lyho47

    Wednesday 19th June 2019, 04:03PM
  • Interestingly though Roger, it's on a different record to the Aglish Parish that you directed me too.  Also, any advice from Board members in finding a Baptism record for Lewis Farrell/ Luis Ferral born c1813 in either Mayo or Meath would be much appreciated. 

    Lyho47

    Wednesday 19th June 2019, 04:19PM
  • Lynn:

    I searched on Roots Ireland from 1808-1818 for all of Ireland and no Lewis/Louis Farrell baptismal records. Plenty of Laurence Farrells in that period. If he was from Mayo, good chance his parish does not have records back to 1813.

    Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 19th June 2019, 06:11PM
  •  Seems like another brick wall, but am happy to have traced back as far as I have.  Thank you very much for searching.  I very much appreciate it.

     

    Lyho47

    Wednesday 19th June 2019, 06:17PM
  • That's interesting about Irish Revenue Police. You may already know about these:

    Royal Irish Constabulary Forum 

    https://irishconstabulary.com/the-irish-revenue-police-t523.html 

    "The Irish Revenue Police: A short history and geneaological guide to the Poteen Hussars" by Jim Herlihy, published by Four Courts Press 

    There are records in U.K. National Archives Discovery catalogue

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5687

    Were there age limits for members of the force which leads you to calculating his age as early 20s when he married? 

    Maggie May

    Wednesday 19th June 2019, 08:41PM
  • Hello Maggie,  I have a copy of the book, and that's where I read that a candidate to join the Revenue Police as a private had to be unmarried. without children and under 24 years of age.  Although the book doesn't tell me when he was discharged, I've assumed that as he married in 1835 he would have had to leave at that time. He married my GG Grandmother  (Esther Bellew) in Mayo, but she was born in County Meath, which is why I wonder if that was his birth County and that he was only in Mayo because of his work.  Esther's birth date is 1813 which is why I assumed he was of a similar age.  Strange though, and it's only as I write this has this thought occurred to me- why wouldn't they have married in Meath, as I think it was usual for marriages to take place where the wife to be lived, yes?

    I hadn't heard of the Royal Irish Constabulary Forum and will take a look at that link.  However, according to the appendices in Jum Herlihy's book, Lewis isn't listed as one of the people who transferred from the Revenue Police to the Constabulary which is another reason why I think he must have been discharged in 1835.  Another puzzle is the seeming lengthy time between his marriage and the birth of my Great Grandfather William in 1844.  A further puzzle concerns William's death in England.  The informant at his death was the daughter of Fergus Farrell born c1837 (County unknown) recorded as William's niece.    I've seen a copy of Fergus's marriage certificate who also married in England, but the father section is left blank.        Thank you so much for taking the time to reply Maggie, I do appreciate your help and interest.

    Lyho47

    Thursday 20th June 2019, 09:29AM
  • Did a man have to stay unmarried for his whole service? Did they stay in barracks or were they billeted in homes?

    Esther's parents may have died and she moved to live with relatives. She may have been working away from home.

    Are you sure that the apparent delay between marriage and birth of 1st known child isn't accounted for by gaps in registers or illegible registers? I have a couple marrying in Mayo 1840. I found only 1 baptism in 1856, that of my own direct ancestor.  I already knew names of his elder brother and sister and  younger sister but I cannot find their baptisms. There may also have been other children who died young and whose names were not remembered.  They were a settled family of farmers in the same townland 1840-1940. The wife's relatives lived next door.

    Another explanation is that the young couple moved away or Lewis went to work elsewhere or joined the army. He may have gone to Britain and joined police or another organisation there. There was depression in Ireland in 1830s after bad harvests. Authorities in Britain were fearful of a large influx of Irish people driving down wages and leading to increased poverty and unrest among native workers.

    Did Fergus Farrell make an appearance on a census?

    I was confused about the different names for the parish when I joined and had to ask. 

    My people lived near a small police barracks so were unlikely to have risked much in the way of illegal activity. 

     

     

    Maggie May

    Thursday 20th June 2019, 11:42PM
  • Hello again Maggie,

     According to Jim Herlihy's book, if privates in the Revenue Police married after their appointment to the force, they would be discharged.  I haven't found any trace of Lewis in the England Census records, but son William, my Great Grandfather born in 1844 definitely appears in 1881,1891,1901, and possibly in 1861 as a soldier in Winchester then 1871 as a soldier at Woolwich in Kent.  William never married, but had 3 illigitimate children with my Great Grandmother, one being my Grandfather (another William)  Fergus can be found in all England census records from 1861 to 1901.   Your thoughts on Esther were useful as I hadn't considered those possibilities, as were your comments about missing baptismal records and possible child deaths.   One of Esthers sisters, Mary was a witness at her wedding, and later appears as a sponsor at William's baptism in 1844, so lots do tie in, but many mysteries remain!  Again, many thanks for your thoughts.  Your comment about Esther maybe not being with her parents has prompted me to follow up with an Ancestry DNA contact of mine in the USA a request that she check the 1860 US Federal Census on my behalf, a person who appears to have the same name and date of birth as Esthers father.

    Lyho47

    Friday 21st June 2019, 03:04PM