Gormly Family of Elphin

John:

Welcome to Ireland reaching Out!

I searched on Roots Ireland and like you could not find a baptismal record for Catherine or any of her siblings. There are two parishes near Elphin RC (Ballinameen to the northwest and Ogulla to the south) which have records starting later than 1850. If Thomas Gormley and his family moved into one of those two parishes then records would not be available.

The 1855 Griffiths Valutaion head of household listing for Co. Roscommon showed five Thomas Gormlys as shown below. We don't know if your Thomas was still alive in 1855 and leasing land.

Have you considered autosomal DNA testing?

Roger McDonnell

SourceSurnameFirst NameTownlandParishCounty

GriffithGormleyThomasCarrowkeel UpperClooncraffCo. Roscommon

GriffithGormleyThomasBellanagareKilcorkeyCo. Roscommon

GriffithGormleyThomasT/bellanagareKilcorkeyCo. Roscommon

GriffithGormlyThomasMullymucksKilbrideCo. Roscommon

GriffithGormlyThomasRathmoreKillukinCo. Roscommon

Roger:  Thanks for the reply.  I also wondered if Thomas might appear in Strokestown church records since the initial marriage record indicated Kilglass for him.  Kilglass records do not begin until quite late and Strokestown is adjacent to Kilglass.  But it's a long shot.  Most likely the records for the Thomas I'm interested in our lost in Kilglass.  I do see that there is a Thomas Gormly in Tithe records in Lavagh town land of Kilglass in 1833.  I have a feeling that is the guy who married Mary Commons in Elphin in 1816.  Thomas was almost certainly gone by the time of the Griffith's records, although it is not known for sure whether he or his wife emigrated along with the 4 known children who are found in Maryland in the early 1850s.  I have not done autosomal testing.  I did Y DNA for my Kennedy line.  I don't really know what the autosomal testing provides other than a vague sense of where the various branches of your family tree arise from and I already know most of that?  However, I don't know much about the testing and what it tells you.    Any explanation on that would be useful :)?   Thanks!  

Hi John!

A background piece  https://www.thoughtco.com/autosomal-dna-testing-for-genealogy-1421845

I have tested with Ancestry DNA and Family Tree DNA. I also took the Y-DNA test with Family Tree. The autosomal tests have helped break down some walls.

Roger

Dig around in this listing for Gormly on the Tithe Applotment lists

For "Thomas Gormly" you can see various locations from 1833-42.

If you know of any cousins' surnames for your grandmother, they might hold the key. Witnesses to marriage records, families they housed with when they emigrated, that kind of thing. They are SO useful.

Cross-check to see if any of those appear in the same Tithe townland list, and you have a good chance of pinpointing a townland of origin (they married within the same townland very often!)

John, I think that your Thomas Gormley may be a brother of our Phillip Gormley.  Phillip married Margaret Berne in 1818 in Elfin.  They had children Edward and Catherine.   Edward married Honora (Ann) Regan in Strokestown in 1846 and then Edward, Ann and Catherine came to Baltimore in 1847.  Their daughter Margaret was my husband's ggrandmother.  While your Gormleys moved from Baltimore to RI, our Gormleys moved from Baltimore to VA/WV and then IN.  

Hello, sorry so long in replying.  I didn't see the email notice that I had a reply to my post!  That does seem possible that Thomas and Phillip were brothers, especially with the Baltimore connection.  There is a ship's record for the Flora McDonald arriving into Baltimore with an Ann and Catherine Gormley in 1852.  We believe that this is our Catherine and her sister Ann (who married Jeremiah Lynch in Harford Co. MD).  Other descendants of our Catherine Gormley (who married William Dempsey) match autosomal DNA with descendants of Ann Gormley Lynch.  So, we're pretty sure of that connection.  My mother matches DNA with a person who has an Alice Gormley married to John Kelly in Strokestown.  Alice would be the right age to be a sibling of Thomas (born about 1790 based on his presumed marriage in 1816).

I'm surprised I haven't seen census records for Edward or his sisters in all my searches in MD, but it's possible that they moved to VA/WV so quickly I didn't notice them.  There are a fairly large number of Gormly's in the Elphin and Strokestown areas, but I suspect that most of them are related.  Just difficult trying to figure out how!

John

John,

I think that fact that you have DNA with Ancestry just might convince my husband to send his in.  Then we can see if there is a real connection.  We are going to Ireland in July and will be spending about 5 days in Strokestown since the Gormleys and Collins are the part of the family that we have the least information about.   I have two Irish lines (Ivers and Flahive) and my husband has 3 (Donovan, Collins and Gormley).  We found the Donovans (now Coleman and Keohane through two female lines).  We found Donovan cousins in Cork on our last visit, so we are hopeful that we might be lucky again. 

If there is any information that you think might be helpful (like the person your mother matches in Strokestown) it might be easier and more direct to communicate by email.  My email is marilee_donovan@msn.com. 

Marilee

Hello Marilee:  We visited Strokestown 4 or 5 years ago and really enjoyed visiting the famine museum there after connecting with Kennedy cousins in south western Roscommon.  As I indicated, my Mom's DNA test matched a person who has Alice Gormley in their family tree.  It is fairly distant at 5th-8th cousin and the match doesn't extend to myself.  However, the location in Strokestown is very interesting since we believe that our Gormley's were from Kilglass and Elphin very near by.  Alice Gormley and John Kelly had a daughter named Winifred Kelly who was the immigrant in that family.  I hadn't reached out to try and connect with this Gormley DNA match because it is so distant and most people who have DNA tests at ancestry DNA aren't interested in collaborating on genealogy.  In any case, your reply prompted me to give it a shot.  The match is with a John Noon (could be his DNA or a relative's).  I'll let you know if anything comes from it.  If your husband does do a DNA test, we'd be hoping for a match with my Mom.  However, Catherine Gormley Dempsey had 11 children and a group has formed among the descendants of those children.  We have members of our email group from 8 or 9 of these children and most of them have DNA tested, increasing the chances that there would be a hit with your husband.  If my estimate is correct and if Thomas and Phillip were brothers, we'd be looking at 4th or 5th cousins to my Mom, which is definitely well within the reach of DNA tests.  Best of luck to you!

John 

John

Still nothing more on Gormleys from my family but today i noticed that there is a Winfred Gormly in the Sweeney post.  

Marilee 

Hello Marilee:  Based on the time line for that Winifred Gormly, she could be yet another sibling of Philip, Thomas, and Alice (if indeed any of these were to prove to be siblings!!!).  On the other hand, there were certainly several Gormly families in Elphin, so we just don't know the connections.  You are probably getting ready for your trip?  Have a wonderful ltime!
John 

Thanks, John.  Will let you know if we find anything of interest.