Lonergan Donegal, Nocknabhoa - Cahir Parish

Margaret:

The family lived in Knocknaboha townland which is in Mortlestown civil parish just north of Cahir civil parish. I looked at the Tithe Applotment listings for 1827 for Mortlestown parish and there were 5 Lonergans listed www.titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie including two in Knocknaboha (Michael and James). I assume one of the two was the father of Patrick.

Also, found one Lonergan family in the 1901 census for Knocknaboha. (see below).

Roger McDonnell

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Mortlestown/Knocknaboha/1708676/

Hi Roger and Tom,

Thanks for the speedy replies

Michael and James Lonergan on 1827 Tithe  -could possibly be both Patrick and Ellen's Fathers as Ellen has stated on her Marriage Record that her Father is a Lonergan as well, and both Patrick and Ellen have recorded their addresses as Nocknobher.

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I have also found this old post from an Eileen Lonergan who seems to be a descendant of Michael or James Lonergan listed on the Tithe (Eilleen is now uncontactable, this was a reply to a message my Uncle had posted)

Posted by: eileen lonergan (ID *****1046)

Date: January 11, 2008 at 17:31:44

I am a native of Knocknaboha and a Lonergan by birth
my great great grandfather was Michael Lonergan of Knocknaboha and he was born in 1810 and died in 1895 It may be something sounds like they could have been brothers because David is a read traditional name in our family my brother my uncle were davids other trad names are Michael and William.

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I had not mentioned previously names that had been recorded for Sponsor/Witness/Informant on the records I have purchased - David Lonergan, Catherine O'Donnell, William Lonergan, M Conway, Patrick Lee, Catherine Lonergan, Catherine Lee, Edmund Daniel, M Doolan, almost all of the records have Priest GF Long.

Thanks

Margaret

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your reply, I can't quite work out where to find the request from Hyland/Barrett.

Margaret

Thanks Tom, Worked it out :)

Thanks for your reply Tom.

It's fantastic to find out the Lonergan surname was so common, surely there is a few relatives out there that have a missing piece or two.

Thanks for the tip on some of those Parish records are recorded under Waterford and Lismore - this is what I found

John Lonergan baptised 2 May 1841, Parish Cahir, RC Father Patrick Lonergan and mother Ellen Lonergan, Withnesses John Kelly and J Nowlan - so a very good match.

Would be just amazing if it was your GG Grandmother Catherine O'Donnell that was witness at the marriage of Patrick Lonergan and Ellen Lonergan 22 Feb 1828, Cahir Parish. Do you have Lonergan's in your tree?

I did not know about the Law regarding equal share on holdings - and thanks for narrowing down possbile siblings on the Griffiths - it does all make a little more sense.

Thanks again

Margaret

Thanks for explaining about the 3 civil parishes at Knocknaboha Cross - and the Towlands on the Knockgraffon side.  I had seen these places on a map and had only seen them as separate areas - not adjoining - I have found quite a few Lonergans in these areas but had not thought they could possibly be linked to mine.

Margaret

Hi Again,

Now I am wondering about Churches and Graveyards - Roman Catholic. Would St Mary's Cahir be the place for their Baptism's, Marriages and Funerals? If so, is there old/new church? Is there a searchable index online?

I have the following records

marriage  1828 and baptisms 1838,1846, 1849  - RC, Cahir Parish, Priest GF Long

Baptism RC Cahir 1841, 1843 (No priest recorded)

David Lonergan address Donegal New Inn, Civil Death 8 May 1869, Parish/Civil Tullamaine, Informant James Hefferman, address Glenagad - where would David be buried?

Thanks

Margaret

That's a great discovery Tom, I am still trying to piece my information together and have not got any contacts for these Lonergans - how would you suggest I could contact these families?

I can't believe Lonergans have been living in Knocknaboha for 200 years or more, that's amazing!

So Kerry and I might end up being related through her Mary Lonergan after all.

I am currently waiting for a reply from 2 living descendants of

Michael Lonergan (Tithe - Knocknaboha)                                                                                                 Son Timothy                                                                                                                                              Son Michael                                                                                                                                              Son Timothy - 2 of his children, I am not sure where they live (I have contacted them through a 3rd person)

Thanks again for all your help

Margaret

That is very kind of you to do so, thanks

Margaret

Hello Margaret,

We're still here in Knocknaboha. Tim(Tadgh) was my Great Grandfather born in 1849 and his son was Michael born in 1901 and his son was  my father Michael (1931). Tim (Tadgh) was married around 1897 in Ardfinnan Church to Mary Carrigan (Ardfinnan) and had an only son Michael in 1901.

Donegal is beside us...Was your Great Grand Father Tims( Tadgh's) brother ?

Does that make us 3rd cousins then?

Tims father Michael is buried in the family plot in New Inn Cemetery, 1870s I think. I must go have a closer look. The story about the 6 sons...3 to usa and 3 to aus sounds about right as we were visited in the 1970s by Lonergans from Colardo who had traced their way back to us thru a William Lonergan who travelled in the 1840s/1850s

Tims father Michael is buried in the family plot in New Inn Cemetery, 1870s I think. I must go have a closer look. The story about the 6 sons...3 to usa and 3 to aus sounds about right as we were visited in the 1970s by Lonergans from Colardo who had traced their way back to us thru a William Lonergan who travelled in the 1840s/1850s

Hi Michael,

Fantastic to hear from you.

Thanks to Tom at Ireland XO for the help, that I have been able to get this far with the research of my Lonergan family.

I can trace my Lonergan blood back 149 years to the same land as you, but we are a bit more distant than 3rd cousins, some people might even think I even from another branch. I quickly did up a chart (and should show up as an attachment to this message) to try and explain my possible connection.

From what I can work out my Patrick or Ellen would have to be an older sibling of your Michael Lonergon born 1810 and died 1895. The James and Michael Lonergan on the Tithes I am hoping them to be their Fathers.

I do know that a few of the records I have found for my GGG Grand  Michael Lonergan b 1838-have Donegal recorded as Place of Birth, where 10 years earlier Patrick and Ellen recorded their address as Knocknaboha.

On a couple of the records here in Australia Patrick Sons have recorded his occupation as "Land Steward" and "Farmer"

Cheers

Margaret

Hi Again,

I actually heard from one of your first cousins 2 days ago Orla. Orla and her father had not heard of Patrick and Ellen either.

I have sent her my tree details and notes/questions and have attached a copy to this message. I have made a few changes to the original I sent to her last night.

Perhaps Eileen Lonergan is another first cousin of yours, I found this old message on the internet and have not been able to get in touch with her.

Posted by: eileen lonergan (ID *****1046)

Date: January 11, 2008 at 17:31:44

I am a native of Knocknaboha and a Lonergan by birth
my great great grandfather was Michael Lonergan of Knocknaboha and he was born in 1810 and died in 1895 It may be something sounds like they could have been brothers because David is a read traditional name in our family my brother my uncle were davids other trad names are Michael and William.

This was in a reply to a message my Uncle had posted.

Orla sent me a photo of the Family Headstone starting with your GG Grandfather Michael d 1895 and you mention New Inn Cemetery for the family plot, I am just trying to work out if this is the Church of our Lady Queen grave yard or somewhere different, I am also trying to work out if the church still stands today? Would this be the closest grave yard to Donegal if Patrick, Ellen and son David died there?.

Thank you so much for connecting me with Michael, it's a fantastic feeling to connect with family after 149 years (about)

It seems nobody remembers Patrick and Ellen, so I  may have to do a bit more detective work to have the connection proven.

Hopefully I even stumble across a descendant or two of Patrick and Ellen.

Thanks for the photos with Ned and Michael Lonergan in them, I will have to pass it around to see if there is any resemblances. By the looks of them they definetly have to be brothers!

And Tom thanks again for your time and this wonderful site.

Margaret

Margaret, the feeling is mutual ! And thanks Tom for all the info that I had never seen before. Although I can't see the Wild Rovers pic on my current lap top I have seen it before. My father Michael and Uncles Ned and David are in it I'm fairly sure ! Yes Margeret, Orla is my 1st cousin and Eileen is my sister.

The tree you wrote out is confusing but very interesting...There are 3 family s of Lonergans within a mile of knocknaboha and we're all 2nd or 3 rd cousins...I'd have to sit down with my dad to get it 100% right. There was once a Pat Lonergan who was a bachelor around early 1900's who was nicknamed Kilorigan and would have been a grand uncle of the other familys but also a 2nd cousin of my grand father I think !?

My Father has alway said The Lonergans around here are ''all the one'' as in all related. The ''Land Steward'' one is strange, maybe it was used to gain favour with the english in Austrailia?  I certainly never heard of it before. As far as I know new Inn is the family plot going way back and is still in use

feel free to email me at micklonergan3@eircom.net or add me on facebook

Yes I know - I can be confusing quite often. :) I am sure you all will be able to work it out.

Well I am glad that Eileen has been found, I have been looking for her for a while now. Her old post kept me going at my research to find the elusive Lonergans.

I agree about the "Land Steward" that it doesn't fit - but it is Un-Australian to "big note" yourself. So there must be something else there?

I will send you an email in the next couple of days, my email address is

meg2365@gmail.com

I have sent you a request on Facebook - I think

See you on Facebook

Margaret

Thanks for that Tom,

Land Steward sure sounds grander than what it is.

Looking over a copy an old letter my Patrick the Land Steward/Farmer may had been dead for quite some years before the boys left. So not sure how his Widow Ellen could have had gold soverigns to spare.

Something I only worked out last night that if Patrick and Ellen had 6 sons - how could they not name 1 son Patrick - I have checked rootsireland and only came up with the wrong Patrick b 1834, St Mary's Clonmel, Mother Ellen Wade.

Margaret

 Tom,

I do not have microsoft office at the moment so I can't see the info re land steward....do you have a link?

Also you may be able to help me regarding the townsland rathard and bows tongue? is that whitelands?

Its on the tithes 1827 William Lonergan

Regards

Check the 1827 Tithes again....Tipperary-Knockgraffon- Springfield ...... There are 3 lonergans (mis-spelled lonugan) Patrick, Thomas and Edmund....Springfield borders donegal and is across a few fields from knockskeagh/ knocknaboha.....He had small holding which could explain why all his sons left after his death?

I am not sure about Springfield - not 1 of my records mention it.

This is where the I have found the have lived (so far)

From 1828 - Knocknaboha

1838 - Knocknaboha and Donegal

Until 1849 - Knocknaboha

Then in 1869 David (b 1844) death - he died at Glenagad but lived at Donegal New Inn.

I received William (b 1846) death certificate today, wishing for a few more clues - found out that he immigrated about 1886 to Australia, informant did not know if William had been married, (Did William wait until his mother Died before leaving Ireland?)

Land Steward role would be similar to a Overseer or Manager here, depending on the size of the Run/Station/Property - These roles would carry huge responsiblity. The next level up of responsibility would be the owner.

Margaret

Michael mentioned your visit and we can't thank you enough for all your personal time you give in reconnecting us all.

I am afraid there are no known Lonergan sporting high achivers, but brothers John and Michael and his son James were much involved in horse racing. Being committee members, perhaps gamblers and  social engagment.

I don;t think the opportunity for sporting interests was there for the generations before me, they mostly lived in the Country, with very long distances to get to the City (Brisbane). 1000 kilometers or more.

Out of curiousty do you know what is recorded on a early death certificate - not the www.rootsireland record, but the one issued by the GRO, I am hoping to hear they list the children of the deceased on it if known.

And can you think of an online record for Tipperary before the Tithe?

Margaret

Hi Margaret, my third great grandfather was also Patrick Lonergan, land steward from Ireland, married to Ellen Lonergan. I've really just started to trace my family tree, so this info. is very handy. I think this is the same Patrick Lonergan you mention? I'll be having a look at all the replies and hopefully be able to find out more info. that will help me.

My mother's mother was: Eleanor Agnes Doyle (nee Lonergan)

• born 1918 Miles Queensland (Qld) Australia, died 2006 Winton Qld Australia
• married to Henry Edward Brown in 1939, at Charleville Qld Australia
• (Henry changed his surname to Doyle by deed poll in 1940)

Her (Eleanor's) father was: James Lonergan

• born 1873 Wambo, Ten Mile, Qld, Australia, died 1942 Charleville Qld Australia
• married to Eleanor Lonergan (nee Bibby) in 1912, at Charleville Qld Australia

His (James') father was: Michael Lonergan (son of Patrick)

• born 1839 Knocknaboha Donegal Tipperary Ireland, died ???
• married to Margaret Lonergan (nee Duffy) in 1868, at Yuleba Qld Australia 

Hi Julie,

My Grandmother was Margaret Kathleen Lonergan, Eleanor's older sister. I don't have to much on the Doyles, but have been out to Winton recently and visited the graves.

If you would like to email me - meg2365@gmail.com

Margaret

Hi Tom,

I am still researching the Lonergan's at Knocknaboha/Donegal, various records and family members have used both Townlands as their address. I can date Patrick and Ellen in Knocknaboha in 1828.

I still haven't found a 'Record' that will confirm my connection to Michael and his family, but they have been a fantastic help regardless.  Poor Michael gets inundated with my questions from time to time, but assures me he is happy to help.

Do you know if there is a local historian (prefably free) that likes a challenge?

This article has 2 Lonergan's murdered - I am interested in the Uncle Lonergan that was murdered 20 years earlier in 1850 - I haven't been able to find out anything about him.

http://welshnewspapers.llgc.org.uk/en/page/view/3439371/ART48/Lonergan

Cheers

Margaret

Just checking then - the only way to access the records from Australia is to commission research through Tipperary Family Histroy Research?

 http://www.tfhr.org/

Thanks Tom that would be great to know when Knockgraffon records might go online. I have found Roots to be a valueable research tool, but I too forget at times that it's not the full records.

Thanks for that Tom

Thanks for that Tom, sorry I didn't reply earlier I was away and couldn't work out how to reply using my phone.  Very interesting indeed, I hadn't looked at Clerihan in my wider search for Lonergans, but am now about to pour over the records you sent with glee.

Thanks

Margaret

Wow! That's fantastic news!

Thanks for letting me know

Margaret